ID cards at long last

My friends mum had a catalogue opened using her details- what I think has happened, her medication comes in a paper bag. Name, address, DOB, & some number, not sure what that is- she has thrown it out, without destroying her info. So it does happen if that info gets into the wrong hands.

PaynesGrey

I agree it will have little difference to the black, hidden, ghost economy - call it what you will. Around 9-10% of the adult population are estimated to work in that anyway, some 6 million people. The government, specifically immigration officers, already have the power to shut down businesses employing illegal workers. There is no need to take these measures.

I wrote upthread about function creep - where something said to be introduced for one purpose ends up being used for many others. The 1939 ID cards ended up used in this way even for reasons that were censored. It's chilling what could happen in the future. We need to resist this.

Do you have any more info. on that? I know what you mean by "function creep" - but wondering what other ways the 1939 version ended up being used please?

I agree it will have little difference to the black, hidden, ghost economy - call it what you will. Around 9-10% of the adult population are estimated to work in that anyway, some 6 million people. The government, specifically immigration officers, already have the power to shut down businesses employing illegal workers. There is no need to take these measures.

I wrote upthread about function creep - where something said to be introduced for one purpose ends up being used for many others. The 1939 ID cards ended up used in this way even for reasons that were censored. It's chilling what could happen in the future. We need to resist this.

Then there's this scenario, we have a rental flat, which we are now in the process of selling. The tenants we have had for the past three years are foreign nationals, the letting agents carried out their status checks for us, all in order. They have now moved out. We have just had the flat painted and went to check on that on completion of the work, whilst we were leaving the flat we were beckoned over by the occupier in the flat downstairs from us. "Did you know?" said he "that there were more than the two people living upstairs, maybe another 3 or 4. Of course we didn't but would account for the state they left the property in, given it's 2 bedrooms and therefore not suitable for say half a dozen, it would also account for the fact that we had found some post addressed to people other than the tenants and they didn't resonate with us as any previous tenants in the 12 years we've owned it. When we spoke about this matter to the letting agents, they said, "oh yes this is not altogether uncommon" They only do annual checks on their lettings. So in that situation, as a landlord, how could there be a verification of ID when there will almost certainly be people who won't be on the tenancy agreements.

petra

If I thought for a nano second it would achieve something I’d be ok with it. But it’s not going to, is it🤷‍♀️
Then there’s the obscene amount of money. 🤬

Yes, that is how I feel.

If I thought for a nano second it would achieve something I’d be ok with it. But it’s not going to, is it🤷‍♀️
Then there’s the obscene amount of money. 🤬

Casdon

Younger people don’t carry purses arum, they carry phones, which they use for everything. As they are the workers at whom the ID card is primarily aimed, it makes sense for it to be available in the form they will carry. I’m sure there will be a card too for those (dwindling numbers) who don’t or can’t use smartphones. To put it into perspective, I searched to find out, and 95% of UK adults now have smartphones.

That 95% that "have a smartphone" doesnt necessarily mean they're using it. I "had" a smartphone and just couldnt make head nor tail of it - and it's long gone now. Probably also the case that some people who bought a smartphone couldnt get on with it and still have the ownership of it - but it's stuck away in some cupboard somewhere totally unused. 99% of us "have" stuff we simply don't use - for whatever reason.

As for other posters point of the Government will take us older people into account - hmmm....but, if they do, it will only be because we are so much freer than a younger agegroup to make our own decisions and many of us do so accordingly......There's less pressure possible on us for a start-off (ie because we don't need a job/have probably got secure housing/etc) and so they have to "please us" more than they do with a younger agegroup.

PaynesGrey

The link above makes it clear that there will be no requirement for individuals to carry their ID or be asked to produce it - only that digital ID will be mandatory as a means of proving the Right to Work.

I am an employer.

Before we take on a new employee we ensure they have an NI number, HMRC reference (P.45 or similar) and check references with previous employers.

Digital ID will make no difference, to us.

Digital ID will make no difference to, car washes, nail bars, food delivery drivers, barbers, candy shops and/or modern day slavery along with prostitution.

I have gone from agreeing, to unsure, to no way Jose.

ID cards maybe, digital NO

The link above makes it clear that there will be no requirement for individuals to carry their ID or be asked to produce it - only that digital ID will be mandatory as a means of proving the Right to Work.

Younger people don’t carry purses arum, they carry phones, which they use for everything. As they are the workers at whom the ID card is primarily aimed, it makes sense for it to be available in the form they will carry. I’m sure there will be a card too for those (dwindling numbers) who don’t or can’t use smartphones. To put it into perspective, I searched to find out, and 95% of UK adults now have smartphones.

If this comes to pass (and I hope it doesn't for reasons already explained upthread) the gov.uk site says this:

In designing the digital ID scheme, the government will ensure that it works for those who aren’t able to use a smartphone, with inclusion at the heart of its design. The public consultation will engage with groups who aren’t as experienced with the digital world, like the homeless and older people, learning from other countries that have done this well.

www.gov.uk/government/news/new-digital-id-scheme-to-be-rolled-out-across-uk

Loads of smart phones are being stolen, especially in London, probably the same around the country. Huge black market in smart phones

The petition against this is growing at a rate of knots - my signature was the 1,905,171 on it.

The vaccine argument was my last straw. I was only too thankful come the last time they tried that one on that it wasn't going to land up in me having to bring a case for unfair dismissal against an employer for sacking me from refusing the jab (as I'm safely retired). I didn't think much of being unemployed back in the 1980s - ie before they started all the cuts in benefit and took it down from enough to exist on to nowhere near enough even for existing (at least if one is single and without any children - as I've always been). But I will never have any medical procedures just because someone else wants me to do so...though I'm only too glad I'm secure and safe from anyone trying to pull that stunt on me.

I know several people that were blackmailed into having that jab - even though their personal decision was to not do so - ie they were in or applying to get carer jobs.

Boy was I glad to be safe from that "unfair dismissal" and that I have a fallback position of "I have no responsibilities whatsoever - so I'm free to do whatever I please - even if it's flip two fingers at the Government and think 'I'm outa here' "
But most people have a job and/or responsibilities and aren't free to think "Blow it" and find the exit door out so to say....

Mamie

Our ID cards in France are physical cards with embedded fingerprints. They are used as proof of identity and confirm our status as legal residents. Our health cards have photographs. We are now able to store our health cards on our phones if we choose, to be scanned at doctors, hospitals and pharmacies for reimbursement. I imagine ID cards will eventually be stored on phones if we wish.
There are still lots of people using cheque books at checkouts!

We are talking about digital ID cards, which would be on one's smartphone . Not everyone has a smartphone, especially the older lot of us. One would have to carry one's smartphone around for identity purposes. Much clumsier than carrying an ID card which fits snugly in .most purses.

We do smell Tony Bliar (sic) indeed.

I've literally just seen a little clip of him giving a speech at the World Economic Forum (yep....that lot...!!!) stating that we need digital ID and digital infrastructure because "you need to know who's been vaccinated and who hasn't been vaccinated". !!!!!!!

So just what would be the plan then when they found out that I haven't been vaccinated? Would they try and place me under house arrest or something if they decide to stage another Lockdown?

Tells me all I need to know and confirms I'm against this then....

GrannyGravy13

I have been told that the Brit Card will be run on an App made by Multiverse, a multi national company founded by Euan Blair, who has shares in the company now worth £375 million…

I smell Tony Blair’s involvement in this, didn’t he try to get ID’s off the ground when in Government?

Oops! I mistyped the company name. Yes, Multiverse not Metaverse.

I have been told that the Brit Card will be run on an App made by Multiverse, a multi national company founded by Euan Blair, who has shares in the company now worth £375 million…

I smell Tony Blair’s involvement in this, didn’t he try to get ID’s off the ground when in Government?

There's a meme that's going viral at the moment - to the effect of "If ID cards are supposed to be a proof of identity - other than using passport or driving licence - then how come you have to produce a passport or driving licence in the first place to get one?".....put in suitably humorous fashion.

That got me thinking - ie would we have to? (errrrm....strokes chin and thinks "My passport photo must be about 15-20 years out of date by now - given my passport is years out of date")....

That's before I start mentioning JUST how averse I am to photos etc now I'm in my early 70's and internal shrieks can probably be heard at the thought of someone who looks nothing like "Me" (ie the image I have in my head of myself before age had a go....).

"I can understand that people who break the law or who want to hide their identity might not want to have to produce one, but for the average law abiding citizen there isn't an obvious downside" Well try reading glammargran's link on the preceding page then.

Mt61

Mamie

Our ID cards in France are physical cards with embedded fingerprints. They are used as proof of identity and confirm our status as legal residents. Our health cards have photographs. We are now able to store our health cards on our phones if we choose, to be scanned at doctors, hospitals and pharmacies for reimbursement. I imagine ID cards will eventually be stored on phones if we wish.
There are still lots of people using cheque books at checkouts!

Point is mamie, too much information on one ID to get into the wrong hands.
Didn’t tax get hacked a few years ago?
Scammers & Hackers are way ahead of any government, using AI, they are very good at what they do.
If you lot want ID then go for it, but many of us do not want it.

Do you mean too much information on one phone?
The ID card is name, date and place of birth, current address, citizenship, and status of residence in France, if you do not have citizenship.

Tony Blair has been lobbying hard for this again having failed first time round. The tech company who will “own” this is Metaverse run by none other than ……… Euan Blair.

Mt61

Yes that might be the case for you, but I take it you landed there with your passport & other documentation? You didn’t get rid of it to claim asylum, did you?

Yes of course I had my passport, but at that time I also had the right to live in France as a national of a country that was a member of EU.
After Brexit we all had to apply for the right to residence and we received ID cards under a special arrangement.
I don't know the number of "sans papiers" in France, but the systems for immigration have been in place for a long time. We saw them first hand at the immigration centre.

cc

I heard on the radio that the prime use of ID cards will be for employers to check the status of potential employees and thus not in regular use for retired people.
I'm all for ID cards, most of Europe and much of the rest of the world already have them - I can't understand why people object, they're not that different to, say, driving licenses?
I can understand that people who break the law or who want to hide their identity might not want to have to produce one, but for the average law abiding citizen there isn't an obvious downside.

There certainly is if you get hacked.

Mamie

Our ID cards in France are physical cards with embedded fingerprints. They are used as proof of identity and confirm our status as legal residents. Our health cards have photographs. We are now able to store our health cards on our phones if we choose, to be scanned at doctors, hospitals and pharmacies for reimbursement. I imagine ID cards will eventually be stored on phones if we wish.
There are still lots of people using cheque books at checkouts!

Point is mamie, too much information on one ID to get into the wrong hands.
Didn’t tax get hacked a few years ago?
Scammers & Hackers are way ahead of any government, using AI, they are very good at what they do.
If you lot want ID then go for it, but many of us do not want it.

Mt61

Yes that might be the case for you, but I take it you landed there with your passport & other documentation? You didn’t get rid of it to claim asylum, did you?

Sorry to mamie