ID cards at long last

The majority of ‘thugs’ look like ‘normal people’ most of the time Mt61 depending on your personal criteria of both labels.

There was a March down London. ‘No to ID’ no thugs, just normal looking people.

growstuff

I don't see why asylum seekers couldn't have interim cards, which could include a photo, given name, date of birth, biometric data and a number which could be accessed for further details, such as the current knowledge about the person eg, whether they have any documents, up-to-date address, how far the application has been processed to date, etc.

That way authorities could keep a track on them and it would be more difficult to slip under the radar.

Look forward to see how they do with that 👍🏻

I don't see why asylum seekers couldn't have interim cards, which could include a photo, given name, date of birth, biometric data and a number which could be accessed for further details, such as the current knowledge about the person eg, whether they have any documents, up-to-date address, how far the application has been processed to date, etc.

That way authorities could keep a track on them and it would be more difficult to slip under the radar.

Mollygo

ID cards might make life easier with the new border checks.
Strange that foreign countries can have our names and personal data from passport, including full name, nationality and biometric data such as a facial image and fingerprints, but the UK doesn’t want ID cards.
Will it stop those against ID cards from travelling to EU countries?
Do we have this set up for all immigrants including those coming in boats?

They will probably be exempt because nobody knows who they are!
Said to be rolling ID out, starting with army veterans. Guy interviewed isn’t happy, as he has veteran ID with his photograph.

ID cards might make life easier with the new border checks.
Strange that foreign countries can have our names and personal data from passport, including full name, nationality and biometric data such as a facial image and fingerprints, but the UK doesn’t want ID cards.
Will it stop those against ID cards from travelling to EU countries?
Do we have this set up for all immigrants including those coming in boats?

It seems tricky to find genuine pros and cons.

NotSpaghetti

You might be interested in this:

youtu.be/AI8cyjfNAfc?si=6hQNS-5GrCZKtWu7

I admit I am against them.

Thank you for posting the link NotSpaghetti, I've listened to it. The pros and cons are clearly stated, and to all those who trot out, "if you've got nothing to hide", that's not the point, it's the ever creeping overreach of the Big Brother state, that opponents fear. I'm also against them.

It is actually the Department for Science, Innovation and Technology who are responsible for Digital ID.
Apologies if I have said this before - Digital ID was introduced in Australia last year with functions similar to the UK proposals. It cost around 400 million dollars to implement and is expected to save 3.3 billion dollars a year, because signing in to multiple services with a single ID is more efficient than having multiple ways of accessing services.

She’s (Lisa Nandy) Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport
Then she should have said she couldn’t answer that because it was a home office issue.
Though maybe that’s just another example of her confusion.

You might be interested in this:

youtu.be/AI8cyjfNAfc?si=6hQNS-5GrCZKtWu7

I admit I am against them.

I can only answer for the French system, but it seems reasonable.
The procedure for "sans papiers" in France has been under review this year. Basically people without documents are not allowed to work, but there are exceptions. These are the new proposals.

"Undocumented workers in sectors 'under strain' to be prioritized According to the new measures, prefects should issue residence permits to undocumented workers in sectors experiencing labour shortages – these jobs are detailed in a 2021 document. [The Ministry of Labour will issue an updated list by the "end of February."] Regularization will therefore be based on France’s labour needs, rather than the personal and family motives of undocumented foreigners.
The Immigration law created a one-year residence permit for "temporary workers" or "employees". The procedure for regularization is carried out only at the request of the foreign worker. The employer does not have to provide any documents or pay any taxes, which was the case under the Valls circular. The foreign worker must meet the following conditions: Having exercised a salaried professional activity which appears in the list of sectors 'under strain' for at least 12 months, consecutive or not, over the last two years.
Proof of an uninterrupted period of residence of at least three years in France.
The prefect must take additional elements into account, such as social and family integration, respect for public order, integration in society and "respect for the principles of the Republic." These are concepts that already appeared in the Valls circular.
Despite the legal framework of the law, the prefect can still reject applications."

Nandy was being asked about a rushed new policy (or rather a revived and defeated policy from the Blair government) before any details has been released. She’s Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport. This a Home Office issue.

ID cards will do nothing to stop employers who fly under the radar from continuing to do so. Government already has powers against those.

As I have said before, beware of function creep and how an ID card could be used to surveil every aspect of our daily lives. Extremely dangerous in the hands of government especially a fascist government that we may be sleepwalking into.

The National Register and ID cards were used to surveil people's private activities during WW2 and long after.

I don't have a phone.

Mamie

Sorry MT61 I don't understand. People who land in other countries with Digital ID to get into UK Government services on line?
I will post this again because there still seems to be some confusion.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme-explainer/digital-id-scheme-explainer

KS is saying everyone needs ID to work.
I am saying how do you give these people coming into the country illegally ID to work if they are destroying their original paper work.
People coming here legally, or people settling in other countries legally, will already have legal papers to be transferred on to electronic ID.

Sorry MT61 I don't understand. People who land in other countries with Digital ID to get into UK Government services on line?
I will post this again because there still seems to be some confusion.
www.gov.uk/government/publications/digital-id-scheme-explainer/digital-id-scheme-explainer

Mt61

& that’s what I was suggesting, start with people who land in other countries with those ID cards. That’s if they can find out who these people are.

Mamie

& that’s what I was suggesting, start with people who land in other countries with those ID cards. That’s if they can find out who these people are.

I am not one to defend LN heaven knows but I do think she was put in a tricky position there.

Galaxy

Watching Lisa Nandy struggle to explain what would happen if people just said no was fun.

Those interviews were just embarrassing for her. She wasn’t clued up enough to explain the idea of ID cards properly.
I cringed watching.

We’ve been here before. The reaction is the same.
www.facebook.com/share/r/199DBjy3YE/?mibextid=wwXIfr

PaynesGrey

As I wrote upthread, my concern is function creep - that ID cards end up being used for a lot more than their original stated purpose particularly that they will be used as a surveillance tool.

That is what happened with the 1939 National Register - the last time we had ID cards - when we were were at war. Three intended purposes: national service, security and rationing.

Eleven years later, long after the war had ended, 39 different goverment agencies were using the data. Some were benign and useful e.g registration for the NHS and Family Allowance. Others were less benign - used to track and monitor people's personal lives.

The police used the data to keep "private" databases of people they were watching. You could not check into a hotel without an ID card. You were not allowed to use any Post Office services without ID. You couldn't access savings, draw a pension or even post or collect a parcel without an ID card. Nowadays, extend that to all banks and courier services and think of the possible consequences.

In the hands of a fascist government, which we are sleepwalking into, ID cards would be a very, very dangerous tool.

Watch Richard Murphy explain:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8cyjfNAfc

As he says, it will do nothing to deter employers who want to conceal their existence and use ghost labour.

Don't overlook the fact that Reform want to take away our human rights, wants to abolish the Human Rights Act 1988. This among other things gives us a right to privacy.

www.bihr.org.uk/get-informed/what-rights-do-i-have

Obviously we are not talking about ID cards, we are talking about Digital ID sign-in for Government Services.
Having lived so long in France I am perfectly happy with an ID card because it assures my right to live here (I used it this morning to get the Mairie Town Hall) to confirm that I am still alive for a form for the UK State Pension Service). My French friends regard ID as a normal part of life and have never expressed any concerns.
Do you not need to confirm who you are to the Post Office when you collect a parcel? Sounds a bit dodgy to me!

CariadAgain
It’s not Amazon themselves who check a person's legitimacy to work, it’s the recruitment company Amazon employ.

As I wrote upthread, my concern is function creep - that ID cards end up being used for a lot more than their original stated purpose particularly that they will be used as a surveillance tool.

That is what happened with the 1939 National Register - the last time we had ID cards - when we were were at war. Three intended purposes: national service, security and rationing.

Eleven years later, long after the war had ended, 39 different goverment agencies were using the data. Some were benign and useful e.g registration for the NHS and Family Allowance. Others were less benign - used to track and monitor people's personal lives.

The police used the data to keep "private" databases of people they were watching. You could not check into a hotel without an ID card. You were not allowed to use any Post Office services without ID. You couldn't access savings, draw a pension or even post or collect a parcel without an ID card. Nowadays, extend that to all banks and courier services and think of the possible consequences.

In the hands of a fascist government, which we are sleepwalking into, ID cards would be a very, very dangerous tool.

Watch Richard Murphy explain:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=AI8cyjfNAfc

As he says, it will do nothing to deter employers who want to conceal their existence and use ghost labour.

Don't overlook the fact that Reform want to take away our human rights, wants to abolish the Human Rights Act 1988. This among other things gives us a right to privacy.

www.bihr.org.uk/get-informed/what-rights-do-i-have

PaynesGrey

Johnson's comments are behind a DM paywall. I can see from the headline that he disagrees (as do I) but can you please precis why he disagrees.

Yes, like lots of things these days. If you can, from someone, get to read it as I could not imitate his take "quite funny".

Comments:

"We still havn't properly digitised NHS records" yet we are expected that the government will set this securely."

40% of people in London born abroad.

"By the time they have finished working out who should or should not be on the database, and by the time they have finished setting it up, the costs will be astronomical. It will make HS2 a total bargain".

"We are talking about many , many tens of billions of pounds, at a time when taxes are at an all-time high"

"I am afraid that, as ever, it won't be the criminals and law breakers who suffer from this vast extension of bureaucracy and state power. It will be everyone else. It will be you and me, blameless citizens who find that their personal data is now being stored in some government system - and whatever they tell you now, that system will be vulnerable to attack. Look at what has happened in the past few months. "

He mentions Landrover M&S etc. There is much more but I will quote one last thing.

" It's a hideously expensive non-answer to the problem of illegal immigration that will plague the innocent and do nothing to deter the guilty."