Manchester Synagogue Attack

Whitewavemark2

Discussion about protest marches do not belong on this thread.

This is where things get conflated, and confused.

On the contrary and given, we are pointing out in this instance, they happened not only on the holiest day in the Jewish calendar but in the direct aftermath of the attacks there is some relevance. I don't know how we can separate the two, the legitimate protest against the atrocities waged on Gaza by the Israeli government and by extension the targeting of the Jewish community. As mentioned up-thread there are those who merely want to address that situation without recourse to demonising the Jewish community per se, in fact there will be Jews who will be part of of those marches. However, like those who assert that not all the demonstrators who have rallied outside the hotels will be racist, some will be and similarly it is quite evident that there are those on the pro Palestinian marches who wish to cower and terrify our Jewish community. Whilst there is much talk of enshrining "Islamaphobia" in law there isn't any suggestion as to corresponding hate speech being forbidden that relates to the Jewish community, a relatively small community in numbers by comparison and as such far more vulnerable.

Casdon

We don’t know if it was misinformation in this particular instance yet though Wyllow3, do we?

No, we are waiting on it. for example, the name given initially by the police looks as if it wasn't the offenders proper name (as in registered as such), there are still many unknowns, partiuclary around "was it a cell, or was it an individual" and other stoppable speculative thinking.

I may have given the impression of rushing in last night: I regret that:

its the strength of feeling of horror at the increasing divisions we have:

and I was shocked that earlier up thread people were rushing in to condemn Muslims, ie the deleted racist posts.

As I posted up thread, I am currently staying with my Jewish friends in Spain.

They are between sorrow for the deaths and anger that it happened.

They and their family no longer feel safe in the U.K.

Whitewavemark2

Discussion about protest marches do not belong on this thread.

This is where things get conflated, and confused.

I think some posters may well have wanted to start another thread, but it has already been suggested that they are pot stirrers . Who wants those accusations and personal attacks?

I have been very mindful to express my feelings of sorrow on the post about marches I've attached to this thread.

Another piece of information I have just googled and triple checked:

The government funds protection both in synagogues and mosques

(Undoubtedly, and quite properly, this will be increased for those in our Jewish communities - if you follow any news feeds, this has been clearly stated)

I saw a sign the other day

T_EAC_H and P_EAC_E
have the same big heart.

I would like one of those in every classroom.

We don’t know if it was misinformation in this particular instance yet though Wyllow3, do we?

(the weekly demonstration is Friday evening)

Just for information - protests on Gaza, over all the country, are held on many days each week. It is not, an has not been Saturday only for a very, very long time

Locally in my town I have a list of 5 events over the next week.
One is a demonstration outside a firm who supplies parts for aircraft: an other is a Jewish Rabbi who is talking about peace in the area and Netanyahu going too far (yes, for real): another is the weekly demonstration out side the station for Gaza, and there are interfaith events too.

Most planned well ahead

So enough of this misinformation, OK?

TerriBull

I'm wondering why given the murders a jubilant march by pro Palestinians was allowed to take place later. Fanning the flames and terrifying the Jewish community further.

I think it was impromptu, no doubt organised over social media. Given it’s impossible to know in advance about impromptu events, I think it is wrong for the media to publicise them, as giving them air time is wrong and may spur others to copy.

escaped

So what's the plan going forward then?

If we allow more of these marches and protests, the more violence will be incited.
If we throw more money at security, it won't prevent more of these attacks happening in the first place.
If we appeal for less hatred, who is going to take any notice.
We've tried all this before.

I think education has to somehow be the only way. I just hope isn't now too late.

I am personally left feeling very sad.

It would be interesting to see if you can link incitement to murder with these marches directly.

There were extreme Muslim attacks before the Hamas attack. The worst terrorism attack in recent years was at the Ariane Grande concert. Jews weren't the direct target then, but the whole of Western civilisation was.

My opinion is that the marches are a symptom not the cause of more widespread hatred, which seems to be global.

Indeed sunami, so we need to educate people about how to differentiate more.

Discussion about protest marches do not belong on this thread.

This is where things get conflated, and confused.

escaped

So what's the plan going forward then?

If we allow more of these marches and protests, the more violence will be incited.
If we throw more money at security, it won't prevent more of these attacks happening in the first place.
If we appeal for less hatred, who is going to take any notice.
We've tried all this before.

I think education has to somehow be the only way. I just hope isn't now too late.

I am personally left feeling very sad.

Palestine Action has been banned. Apart from banning any hint of support for Palestine, I'm not sure what else the government can do without turning into a dictatorial state.

The problem is that the actions of the Israeli government have now been linked with ordinary Jews living in the UK. Some support Israel; some don't.

It works both ways. The perpetrator of the recent murders appears to have linked all Jews with Israel and Gaza. People who want to stop all support for Palestine are linking support with antisemitism.

Hatred on either side isn't going to stop the hatred on the other side.

Babs03

I also think the marches were a bad idea yesterday but am not sure how, once people had descended on London already, it could have been called off. These marches are organised weeks before. They were certainly not done to coincide with this awful tragedy.

They shouldn’t have been given permission to march on the Jewish holy day full stop.

These marches/demonstrations are organised weeks in advance, they have to get permission from the local police departments.

Why choose a Thursday ?

Well I was under the impression marches were orchestrated for weekends, yesterday's appeared to be impromptu for the purposes of a group gloat Quite appalling

The Home Secretary has asked the demonstrators to step back for at least a few days, oh so it'll be alright next weekend then These murderous acts are a culmination of hatred directed towards one community, who agiatators will have no idea what their views are on Gaza, they should have be allowed to go about their business and worship without fear. Whilst I'm sure a fair proportion of marchers do not seek to intimidate the Jewish community it's quite apparent that there are those who want to do just that, hence the rallies yesterday

I also think the marches were a bad idea yesterday but am not sure how, once people had descended on London already, it could have been called off. These marches are organised weeks before. They were certainly not done to coincide with this awful tragedy.

So what's the plan going forward then?

If we allow more of these marches and protests, the more violence will be incited.
If we throw more money at security, it won't prevent more of these attacks happening in the first place.
If we appeal for less hatred, who is going to take any notice.
We've tried all this before.

I think education has to somehow be the only way. I just hope isn't now too late.

I am personally left feeling very sad.

Quote GrannyGravy13 Fri 03-Oct-25 07:54:12
TerriBull
I'm wondering why given the murders a jubilant march by pro Palestinians was allowed to take place later. Fanning the flames and terrifying the Jewish community further.

Totally agree

Because it couldn’t be stopped ?

TerriBull

I'm wondering why given the murders a jubilant march by pro Palestinians was allowed to take place later. Fanning the flames and terrifying the Jewish community further.

Totally agree

I'm wondering why given the murders a jubilant march by pro Palestinians was allowed to take place later. Fanning the flames and terrifying the Jewish community further.

Innocent Jews killed on their holiest day of the year brings about pro Palestine demonstrations.

Spare a minute to think about how all Jews are feeling in the UK right now…

How would you describe him StripeyGran ?

I don’t know much about him.