Breaking news, midnight - Peace in the Middle East?

ronib

There are protocols for returning war dead as defined in the Geneva Convention.

Laughable. Do you think either side care about that?

The desperate search for the Israeli dead continue in Gaza.

Hamas is asking for specialist equipment in order to remove the rubble and find the remains.

Ben Gvir - the far right politician who is sanctioned in the U.K. for extreme violence, has called for all aid to cease until the bodies are found.

Not exactly helping the fragile peace!

The US has downplayed this threat.

Was not return of the dead part of the ceasefire agreement ?

Anniebach

Was not return of the dead part of the ceasefire agreement ?

Yes but Hamas was clear they couldn't return them until they find them, if they can find them. That's obvious isn't it, Netanyahu knew when they were bombing Gaza that he was endangering the lives of the hostages and if they were killed they would be buried in the rubble.

Anniebach

Was not return of the dead part of the ceasefire agreement ?

If it was - then it rather sounds as if it was set up to fail from the outset - as it doesn't take more than two braincells to see all the reasons posters are stating as to why (even with the best will in the world) that's simply not going to happen.

It's not as if all the bodies are going to be intact if/when they are found - as some will have been blown to pieces by a bomb or the like and it would be more a case of finding one body part here, another body part there, etc and hoping they belong to the same body. Perhaps someone who knows more medically than the rest of us could tell us more on that subject - as all I know (as a member of the public with little medical knowledge) is it's always been my impression that people get identified by checking dental records and/or distinctive aspects of their body (eg injuries they had of themselves, presumably birthmarks?, any other distinctive features). To me it sounds like a job that's incredibly complicated to even try to do if a body has been rendered into various different parts.

escaped

I am relatively familiar with Jewish law which decrees that a proper burial of the body should be carried out as an act of love, so I can understand the importance of getting the dead hostages returned as soon as possible. The problem is that there isn't a quick practical solution. I agree the remains may well be irretrievable in the short term, if ever.

Out of interest, does anyone know how much importance the Palestinian people attach to burials of their dead?

I used to know a Muslim family, a cousin died in a plane crash and they were devastated that his body could not be buried wrapped in a sheet but had to be in a coffin so it seemed to me that their burial traditions were very important. Of course that was just one family.

I remember my granny paying her shilling a week so she wouldn't have a paupers funeral, now I know lots of people opting for direct cremation as they think funerals are a waste of money. Big change in a couple of generations.

Israel will know that it will be impossible to locate and dig out bodies in the time frame given. They know how much devastation they have caused with their bombs. There are thousands of bodies under the rubble.
I think they will use this excuse to try to continue the killing.
As the US have downplayed the incomplete return of bodies I'm hoping that Israel will be reasonable and allow more time but as others have said the extent of the bombing means some bodies will have been blown apart.

Hamas caused devastation 7th October 2023

escaped

It's difficult to understand why, when both want the same kind of things, that they take very different paths to reach this end. With tragic consequences. They both use religion in the extreme to support their war.

For me, however, I cannot get over Hamas not returning hostages, alive or dead, in week one. They can't possibly argue religious beliefs are justified here.

It's not quite so simple as using religion in the extreme. Some Orthodox Jews oppose Zionism and don't even recognise the state of Israel. That's why they're exempt from conscription.

If you really want something difficult to understand, try understanding the difference between Sunni and Shi'a Muslims.

Some of the dead hostages were originally taken alive, but have been killed by Israeli bombing.

The hostages families pleaded with the government to stop bombing to save the lives of their loved ones but they carried on and the result is more hostages will be dead under the rubble.

News from Palestine.

To mirror the reporting from Israel. 90 bodies of the Palestinians have been returned, but without any identification so, once doctors have been able to identify the body, the bereaved can bury their dead.

There can of course be no return to normality, as is the case in Israel, and the future will be one of poverty and hardship.

Gaza is still, just as it was before the war, an occupied territory with no freedom of movement, goods or trade making it very difficult for Gaza to prosper.

Israel has not yet fully opened the gates to allow aid into the strip. Shortages continue.

One very good piece of news though! The fishermen can catch fish from their sea😊, although access is restricted and they are not allowed to fish outside of the restricted zone.

That’s not my understanding Wwm2. A new governing authority is being set up by Trump …. It’s still very early days and it’s all to play for. It’s been days since the ceasefire started.

Yep...the way things look then it's reminding me to check out what happened a few centuries back with the "100 years war". Some wars can go on one heck of a long time - and that 100 years war would have been back at a time when the average lifespan was shorter than now on the whole. So goodness only knows just how long this one is going to go on for - especially bearing in mind that "Greater Israel" objective Netanyahu et al have in mind and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this war goes on far longer than that 100 years.

It feels very odd to get born when a war had been going on for several years already and in all expectation that same war will still be going on after my time.

We should never forget the plight of the Gazan people who have returned to their neighbourhoods that are now unrecognisable.
They have no homes are lucky if they can get a tent and there is still not enough food or medical supplies.
Aid agencies are concerned for children as the winter arrives. A tent is not sufficient to keep them warm.
They need warm clothes and blankets that are not getting through now that Israel is restricting aid.
The winter in Gaza will be very much harder than for those in Gaza than for the Israelis.

ronib

That’s not my understanding Wwm2. A new governing authority is being set up by Trump …. It’s still very early days and it’s all to play for. It’s been days since the ceasefire started.

I am writing about today - not tomorrow or next month. Absolutely nothing is certain, and I am not feeling terribly optimistic

Anniebach

Hamas caused devastation 7th October 2023

Yes they did but they didn't bomb Gaza and kill and bury under rubble Gazans and Israelis.

We have not been given any details of Trump’s vision for Gaza but it will be beautiful. He’s not a magician and even Trump needs time to organise the rebuilding. I imagine his family will be very involved somehow so ultimately it will happen. I don’t know if that helps our uncertainty or not?

Gaza is an extremely fertile piece of land, so it will be good to see the farmers begin to re-plant the olives and other stuff to begin to feed themselves.

They need money to buy their seeds and plants, much better than providing the actual stuff, as farmers are best placed to know what is best to grow etc.
Israel destroyed everything.

Quote theworriedwell Thu 16-Oct-25 11:01:18
Anniebach
Hamas caused devastation 7th October 2023
Yes they did but they didn't bomb Gaza and kill and bury under rubble Gazans and Israelis.

Israel didn’t sexually abuse children in their cribs, didn’t rape , didn’t lock people in rooms and set fire to them ,
didn’t take small children from Gaza to Israel

What was your preferred solution ?*Wwm2*. What should Israel have done on October 8th 2023?

Gaza has lots of natural springs, which are controlled at present by Israel, and unfortunately contaminated by the destruction of the sewerage system.

If Israel releases control (why do they want control, it doesn’t benefit Israel) then they can be reconstructed snd water available for drinking and irrigation.

Israel retaliate towards Gaza until 13th October, 2023. I imagine a lot of consideration, deliberation and consultation with other countries occurred surging this time.

Gaza continued to bombard Israel in the interim, fortunately Israel invested money on protecting its citizens.

Hamas invested its millions in tunnels to protect itself…

Israel has gone too far with its bombings and blockade of the Gaza Strip, but Hamas knew the retribution for their acts what be catastrophic, so they hid underground without a thought for the civilians being used as human shields.

I see absolutely no benefit is continually going over the past. My opinion about the 8th October has been posted numerous times.

Israel had every right to self defence - no question about it. I fully supported and continue to support that right as a sovereign country.

Israel as a fully signed up state, also had a duty to keep within the rules of law regarding warfare.

It failed to do so from 8th October, when it cut off all food, water and fuel.

Flipping typos, my phone has a mind of its own 🤬🤬🤬