A rather large bill......

Good point Allira though I still feel it to be imposible to simply dismiss Henry’s concerns about the legacy on black British people now. We can be thankful the racism Henry grew up with is less acceptable now but we’ve a way to go

Magz57

Why do people think money will solve everything? Pretty much every country in the world was involved in slave trading one way or another - not just uk. Hindsight is 20-20 and yes it was deplorable but we cannot be expected to pay for the ignorance of past generations.

If we can't be expected to pay for the past, nor should we be singing patriotic songs and flying flags proclaiming our pride in British heritage. We can't claim pride for all which happened in the past.

We should be studying history objectively and accepting what happened. I have no doubt David Lammy and Lenny Henry have suffered racial discrimination at some point in their lives. Hopefully, there is less racism these days, but it doesn't negate the influence of discrimination. It must be galling for them (and other black people) when the contribution of their ancestors isn't recognised in the story of what the UK is now.

sunami

Magz57

Why do people think money will solve everything? Pretty much every country in the world was involved in slave trading one way or another - not just uk. Hindsight is 20-20 and yes it was deplorable but we cannot be expected to pay for the ignorance of past generations.

If we can't be expected to pay for the past, nor should we be singing patriotic songs and flying flags proclaiming our pride in British heritage. We can't claim pride for all which happened in the past.

We should be studying history objectively and accepting what happened. I have no doubt David Lammy and Lenny Henry have suffered racial discrimination at some point in their lives. Hopefully, there is less racism these days, but it doesn't negate the influence of discrimination. It must be galling for them (and other black people) when the contribution of their ancestors isn't recognised in the story of what the UK is now.

I am rather horrified by the dismissive if not downright crass comments being made here.

I haven't heard Lenny Henry's 'call' as OP puts it and will reserve my opinions for when the book is actually published and I can read it myself.

Meanwhile people need to think a little more about how offensive not to say small minded some of their comments are.

Not for one minute is any money going to be paid to anyone. However anyone who sees the landed aristocracy in their big houses and vast estates of land in this country cannot deny that most of this wealth came from the triangular trade system in which people were commodities of trade and bought and sold on open markets like cattle.

The compensation that was made, was only to the slave owners when the trade ended and the owners had to be compensated for their 'goods' and loss of profit.

Anyone who can't see the total moral bankruptcy of this situation must be made aware that there can be no justification for what took place in the name of profit, and the impact that had on the everyday lives of ordinary people in this country ever since...

Lets all join in. What about us (half) Irish? We have been exploited by the English since Norman times.. Come to that the Normans are responsible for the subjection of women. Women's position in Anglo- Saxon society was almost equal to that of men. Let all us women demand compensation from the French. Let us all go round on a merry-go-riund etc etc.

keepingquiet You quoted my post. I hope you don't think it was dismissive and crass.

Perhaps men ( including the wealthy Lenny Henry) should make reparations to all the women that have oppressed over the centuries, depriving them of basic human rights and using them for their own purposes.

that they have oppressed

keepingquiet

sunami

Magz57

Why do people think money will solve everything? Pretty much every country in the world was involved in slave trading one way or another - not just uk. Hindsight is 20-20 and yes it was deplorable but we cannot be expected to pay for the ignorance of past generations.

If we can't be expected to pay for the past, nor should we be singing patriotic songs and flying flags proclaiming our pride in British heritage. We can't claim pride for all which happened in the past.

We should be studying history objectively and accepting what happened. I have no doubt David Lammy and Lenny Henry have suffered racial discrimination at some point in their lives. Hopefully, there is less racism these days, but it doesn't negate the influence of discrimination. It must be galling for them (and other black people) when the contribution of their ancestors isn't recognised in the story of what the UK is now.

I am rather horrified by the dismissive if not downright crass comments being made here.

I haven't heard Lenny Henry's 'call' as OP puts it and will reserve my opinions for when the book is actually published and I can read it myself.

Meanwhile people need to think a little more about how offensive not to say small minded some of their comments are.

Not for one minute is any money going to be paid to anyone. However anyone who sees the landed aristocracy in their big houses and vast estates of land in this country cannot deny that most of this wealth came from the triangular trade system in which people were commodities of trade and bought and sold on open markets like cattle.

The compensation that was made, was only to the slave owners when the trade ended and the owners had to be compensated for their 'goods' and loss of profit.

Anyone who can't see the total moral bankruptcy of this situation must be made aware that there can be no justification for what took place in the name of profit, and the impact that had on the everyday lives of ordinary people in this country ever since...

You can read the statement without waiting for a book to be released - it was published yesterday on several sites. I didn't construct the text:

Sir Lenny Henry has called for the payment of slavery reparations to all black British people.
Writing in a new book titled The Big Payback, the comedian supports the case for the UK government to give £18 trillion in compensatory payments.
In the book, Sir Lenny writes: "All black British people... need reparations for slavery," adding that "we personally deserve money for the effects of slavery".

You seem to be dismissive of the efforts of the government of the day to have slaves released - may we know what your solution might have been? Every working person has contributed towards the payment of this huge debt - and it seems, as ever, there is no acknowledgement of this, only scorn.
We cannot change, or be responsible for, the actions of ancestors - and to suggest posters on here are dismissive, crass, and ignorant of the effects of slavery, or may even see a justification in the name of profit, is insulting and offensive.

LovesBach Presumably the last paragraph was constructed by you.

I'm not sure where the statement came from. I haven't read the book either, but the statement I read is somewhat different.

It's interesting, isn't it, that's man with a knighthood worth an estimated £7 million thinks that he and others who are descendants of slaves are due reparation.

It's an I'll win that blows nobody any good, because if Sir Lenny's ancestors had not been taken as slaves and suffered then their descendants came to Britain, where would he be now?

As his great-great-grandfather was a white slave owner, how much will he contribute to the pot?

How far into the past do we travel and who should get compensation?
Descendants of Scottish crofters? Irish people who suffered in the potato famine? Convicts deported to the Colonies for stealing a loaf of bread?

Where do we draw a line?

I'll win ill wind

This is from another review of the book ...

"But this book stresses from the beginning that giving reparations is not necessarily about financial compensation.

Primarily, it is about recognising the terrible wrong wrought by the transatlantic slave trade, and the importance of understanding its effects on how we live now. Henry and Ryder cover the different forms reparations could take, including restitution, compensation, rehabilitation and public apology. They also discuss setting up a Caribbean Community (Caricom) body to receive reparations. And while they don’t reach a conclusion on what reparation should look like, they insist on the case for it in principle. On one hand, they explain how much of the reality of racism today can be traced back to the economic and psychological consequences of the slave trade: chronic educational underachievement; an increased likelihood of falling foul of the criminal justice system; higher rates of psychosis. On the other, they set out how profits from the slave trade continue to make money today – for instance, by having helped make the UK a global financial centre."

As I haven't read it, I can't comment. Just saying that reviews can be biased.

I guess the answer is to read it.

Thanks for posting from the review sunami. It reflects the interview I heard with Henry and Ryder, referred to in a previous post.

Trying to dismiss the lasting impact of the slave trade tends to confirm casual, inbuilt racism. Their explanation that much of racism today can be traced back to the economical and psychological consequences of the slave trade. The impact of that can be seen in educational under achievement, increased involvement in falling foul of the CJS, higher rates of mental health issues.

It’s still not unusual to see these difficulties as just part of being black, a cultural thing, with little reflection on history.

M0nica

Lets all join in. What about us (half) Irish? We have been exploited by the English since Norman times.. Come to that the Normans are responsible for the subjection of women. Women's position in Anglo- Saxon society was almost equal to that of men. Let all us women demand compensation from the French. Let us all go round on a merry-go-riund etc etc.

Yep...I was already thinking one can witness discrimination without trying too hard any day of the week in some parts of Britain - by people who are very obviously British against other people who are very obviously British.

I was only talking yesterday to an Eastern European neighbour of mine about someone we both know vaguely - and I was retailing off to him that I caught her going up to a Council workman one time and speaking at him (yep her words were being spat at him by her) in Welsh (this is West Wales here) and he said "I'm sorry I don't speak Welsh" to her and she proceeded to spit some more words in it at him and still looking angry for no reason I could see. At which point I flew at her and told her very firmly "He's told you he doesnt speak Welsh. He's even apologised for not doing so. Now leave him alone!!!!" before she stalked off and stopped bothering him. Cue for I'd managed to stop her harassing him - she was obviously hoping he'd verbally defend himself and she could put in a complaint against him and hope to lose his job for him - so someone else she approved of more could have it. He duly thanked me for safeguarding his job for him.

Yep....merry-go-round indeed - and some people would harass others for coming from literally the next street over to them.

Most people are sorry slavery took place. (Apart from those practising the current enslavement.)
That was why the UK went to such lengths to stop the slave trade.
They were sorry and did something about it.
The review makes what they are saying clearer, but how long would they like the reparation to continue?

Expecting people who were never involved in slavery so long ago, simply creates more resentment or ill feeling.
Even if their remote ancestors profited from the practice, expecting descendants or governments who had no say in what went on back then, to do more than express regret that it happened is unreasonable.

Do they (LH et al) propose to start similar movements e.g. in Ghana, where evidence remains that native slaves were traded among people of the same race?

Racism linked to slavery makes sense,
But expecting people to be endlessly saying sorry, or to pay for something they had no part in wouldn’t change racism.

sunami

keepingquiet You quoted my post. I hope you don't think it was dismissive and crass.

No, not at all. I was echoing your post but it was late and maybe some people had incensed me so much I was thinking straight.

Of course, many people have suffered oppression and hardship at the hands of the British government but this post was about the tri-angular slave trade so I was trying to stick to that issue instead of dragging in other examples as many were doing.

Never mind, this forum seems to be more about having a good moan than trying to see issues objectively... which is a shame because the posts which are really saying something often get drowned out.

Thankyou for your recent balanced post above.

CariadAgain
Does the fact that your neighbour is Eastern European have any bearing on a fact that a woman was shouting at a council workman in Welsh.
If the woman had been shouting ( in Welsh) at your Eastern European I could understand the relevance.
Why did you feel the need to point out he is Eastern European?

I sometimes think the whole concept of reparation with money is ridiculous.

Of course we know that the Windrush generation was badly served and mistreated and deplore that, but we cannot turn the clock back.

What we can do it to work for equal opportunities and integration and I think that is very much happening. Not perfect of course, but very little is.

If we start paying out reparation for every past wrong, the amount of money that should be paid to women would be astronomical.

Luckygirl3

If we start paying out reparation for every past wrong, the amount of money that should be paid to women would be astronomical.

Very true. All those lost careers. All that healthcare standard being worse than a man would have had. All that lost spare time - because Him Indoors refused/a lot of them are still refusing to do their fair 50% share of the housework that is the case if both have got full-time jobs.

Very true indeed.

Luckygirl3

If we start paying out reparation for every past wrong, the amount of money that should be paid to women would be astronomical.

Exactly - and the oppression of women might be better than it was but it’s still with us.

petra

CariadAgain
Does the fact that your neighbour is Eastern European have any bearing on a fact that a woman was shouting at a council workman in Welsh.
If the woman had been shouting ( in Welsh) at your Eastern European I could understand the relevance.
Why did you feel the need to point out he is Eastern European?

I got lost somewhere .......

I am concerned about the fact that some new rules are being introduced in a rush to try to show that the Government is tackling illegal immigration.

The rules in fact target a few people who have been here for years but, for whatever reason, have failed to regularise their immigration status, perhaps through wrong advice or wrong assumptions. It also penalised a very few who were planning to visit family here from the Caribbean as the new rules were rushed in without notice.

That’s a valid concern, Allira.
It was suggested at our coffee morning, by one of the people mentioned in your second paragraph, that it’s because that is easier for the government to do than stopping the boats.

Mollygo

That’s a valid concern, Allira.
It was suggested at our coffee morning, by one of the people mentioned in your second paragraph, that it’s because that is easier for the government to do than stopping the boats.

Some people married, have children here, have worked here for many years and are now frightened they will be deported.

We know of people who were to come over for a holiday and to visit family but had to cancel because the rules were introduced in such a rush.