Maccabi Tel Aviv football club banned

The West Midlands police listened to SAG ( were they Muslim?)
Birmingham Council and what they called community concerns.Then they folded!
The PM and other leaders of political parties condemned the fact that the police were saying they couldn’t police it. Absolutely pathetic.

MayBee70

Babs03

I think the pro Palestinian protestors would very quickly be joined not only with Maccabi fans but Yaxley Lennon and his thugs, all looking for a good kicking, promising to show up to support the Maccabi fans, if the game went ahead, so why Starmer and co were still eager to let the fans attend is beyond me.
There would have been multiple injuries - including of police officers - and even possible fatalities. Am not blaming any side, they would all kick off but am blaming the government for not putting the safety of the public and the police above their own political careers, which would have been tarnished with accusations of anti semitism if they had supported the ban.

Especially as Yaxley Lennon has recently been invited to give a talk in Israel. I mean, what was that all about and who is ready to condone it? It surely proves that there are extreme right wingers in Israel.

There have always been Israeli flags at right wing marches in the UK.

Lathyrus3

I’m really sorry that you can’t see past your personal involvement to the dangers of allowing any group threaten public disorder and violence in order to achieve their own aims.

I find that very patronising, frankly. A way of putting down someone making a political/social point.

We all have the ability to transcend who our relatives or friends are and make a thoughtful political point.

We may use their experiences as an example, surely we all do - but you are suggesting that Babs is less than able to make a valid point. If you said that to someone who had Jewish connections - now that would go down well, wouldnt it?

Lathyrus3

But it is to protect Muslims as much as any other group that the Government cannot allow any group to dictate what happens on the streets because that group threatens violence that cannot be controlled.

Can’t you see that to give in to the demands of any groups because of the violence they threaten opens the door to fear for everyone?

You’ve done your best to get that message through but Babs03 just doesn’t seem to get it.🤷🏼‍♀️
In any case the maccabi TA fans aren’t coming and so we will see how the pro Palestinian crowds act at the Villa ground.In my opinion they will act badly.

Lathyrus3

I do hate it when people try to justify their own arguments but putting false words into other people’s mouths.

If you car3 to read what I actually sad you will see that I said that the government cannot allow large groups of people to dictate what happens on our streets through the threat of violence and the fear that the violence is beyond control.

This principle applies to anyone and everyone regardless of their ethnicity or beliefs.

It wasn't a "large group of people" who were dictating. It was West Midlands Police and the safety organisation who made a responsible decision based on facts.

Well having skin in the game changes things. Though I am not Muslim. I do know many who are, some very close to me.
The thing is I agree that any pro Palestinian supporters intent upon violence should be kept away from a game like this. Fair enough. And am sure the police will act accordingly. But the Maccabi fabs - not all I imagine but enough - are not the victims here, they are also intent upon violence as has been proved time and again. Yet they have been championed by the government.
There is no one side bad and one side good here. They are both bad. It is just being called antisemitism and that I suppose is very much that. The period at the end of the sentence. The ‘no more debate necessary’.

I’m really sorry that you can’t see past your personal involvement to the dangers of allowing any group threaten public disorder and violence in order to achieve their own aims.

Lathyrus3

But it is to protect Muslims as much as any other group that the Government cannot allow any group to dictate what happens on the streets because that group threatens violence that cannot be controlled.

Can’t you see that to give in to the demands of any groups because of the violence they threaten opens the door to fear for everyone?

But the government were trying to reverse the ban until this was announced -
“Israeli football team Maccabi Tel Aviv has said it will turn down any tickets offered to its fans for a match in the United Kingdom, even if an earlier decision by local officials to bar the team’s followers from attending is reversed.”
So how were the government’s actions protecting Muslims, when in fact they seemed happy to allow fans using Islamophobic chants to attend the game?
And believe me those chants are beyond vile.
I mean can you imagine the government insisting fans who used awful antisemitic chants should attend a match?
I can’t, and I would be horrified if they did.

But it is to protect Muslims as much as any other group that the Government cannot allow any group to dictate what happens on the streets because that group threatens violence that cannot be controlled.

Can’t you see that to give in to the demands of any groups because of the violence they threaten opens the door to fear for everyone?

And this is how Muslims are feeling right now. Perhaps we could take a moment to reflect upon how this looks to them because this year Islamophobic attacks on Muslims have increased every bit as much as attacks on Jewish communities.
So why should they, if they attended the Aston Villa game, have had to listen ti such chants. Tbh I doubt they would even go, Muslims don’t tend to go to football matches the risks of attacks are too high.

The elephant in the room here is that fans who use vile Islamophobic chants and are known to be violent were championed by the government in order not to be seen as antisemitic.
So we all know how partial the government us and how they cannot be relied upon to make the right call when it comes to racism against Muslims, in fact they will err on the side of those who are rampantly Islamophobic. But of course the pro Palestine supporters are the smoke screen to make this all look ok. But it isn’t.

Babs03

I think the pro Palestinian protestors would very quickly be joined not only with Maccabi fans but Yaxley Lennon and his thugs, all looking for a good kicking, promising to show up to support the Maccabi fans, if the game went ahead, so why Starmer and co were still eager to let the fans attend is beyond me.
There would have been multiple injuries - including of police officers - and even possible fatalities. Am not blaming any side, they would all kick off but am blaming the government for not putting the safety of the public and the police above their own political careers, which would have been tarnished with accusations of anti semitism if they had supported the ban.

Babs3, I agree with all of this.
Very sad that their political careers would have been tarnished with accusations of anti semitism if they had accepted the safety assessment by the competent authorities without query.But alas, I think they would have been.

Why anyone's career should be tarnished by unfounded accusations, I don't understand.But this government on this issue, it's all too likely to happen. So I understand their intervention although I wish they didn't feel they had to.

I do hate it when people try to justify their own arguments but putting false words into other people’s mouths.

If you car3 to read what I actually sad you will see that I said that the government cannot allow large groups of people to dictate what happens on our streets through the threat of violence and the fear that the violence is beyond control.

This principle applies to anyone and everyone regardless of their ethnicity or beliefs.

Sorry typing on my phone so is a bit weird.
But you get my drift.

Lathyrus3

Well yes the Government would stick its oar in if the reason for the ban was that a mass of pro Semitic protesters were intending to gather in order to hurl racist abuse at the team and carry out violent acts. If there had been public calls for violence without mercy from prominent Jewish leaders.

It would be the reverse of the case before us and the principle would be the same. The Government could not allow a racist mob to dictate what happens on our streets because they fear the violence that the mob threatens.

So you are saying it is ok, however, ok for supporters who use racist chants against Muslims, absolutely vile racist chants, to be allowed to attend a game?
And equally ok for the government to intervene to lift a ban?
Am not saying pro Palestinian groups wouldn’t want to stir the pot and am not taking their side at all. But perhaps if I clarify this by saying these anti semitic supporters are Muslims so Yaxley Lennon and his thugs were ready to give them a kicking.
Would you suppose a ban and expect the government to stay out of it?

Well yes the Government would stick its oar in if the reason for the ban was that a mass of pro Semitic protesters were intending to gather in order to hurl racist abuse at the team and carry out violent acts. If there had been public calls for violence without mercy from prominent Jewish leaders.

It would be the reverse of the case before us and the principle would be the same. The Government could not allow a racist mob to dictate what happens on our streets because they fear the violence that the mob threatens.

Let’s try this scenario. A football team whose supporters use anti semitic chants and are known to be troublemakers is due to play a UK team over here but the police ban the supporters. Do we suppose the government would stick its oar in??
I very much doubt it and would wholeheartedly agree that the supporters should be banned.
Does anyone think that this decision would be wrong?
Am very interested in peoples replies to this one.

Oreo

Babs03

And I hardly think we can blame the derby cancellation in Tel Aviv on antisemitism.

Well of course not as it was in Israel, but it would be antisemitism over here.The denials are tedious .

That doesn’t make sense to me . Can only some people be accused of anti semitism but others not??

Public Order is more important than being PC.

We will find out next month how the pro Palestinian crowds here behave won’t we?

AGAA4

It was not anti-Semitism. Protecting the British public from harm is the job of the police and until now I believed to be the job of the government.
The police were right the government was wrong.

We shall never agree on that.

It’s not happening as the Israeli fans aren’t coming, tho the maccabi TA team are and I bet they get heckling inside the ground and yelled at outside the ground and I only hope that’s the extent of the hate from the locals and others.

It was not anti-Semitism. Protecting the British public from harm is the job of the police and until now I believed to be the job of the government.
The police were right the government was wrong.

Bleating?
Rather rude and I don’t remember saying that.If I did it would have only been once in any case.

@Oreo

“Well of course not as it was in Israel, but it would be antisemitism over here.The denials are tedious”

And just what would it be if the Maccabi fans and Yaxley Lennons thugs turned on the pro Palestinian lot, whom I am not defending if they just want trouble.
Could that possibly be Islamophobia??
The anti Arab chants, the support from racist thugs.
This is a two way street Oreo. I recognise that but do you?
And btw I hope you have dropped the bleating about Starmer being after the Muslim vote. Which I said at the time was nonsense.