Do you believe extreme elite groups must exist?

No I like it😁

Sorry for my typo Lathtyrus 🥱, I was on my way out for GP appointment and didn't want to be late. Just as I typed in your name correctly just now- auto correct changed again to Lathers, I will take better care to check in future!

Thanks lemons.

I quite liked being Lathers. V appropriate because I indulged in a Sanctuary Spa body scrub in the shower this morning
(Too much information 😱)

I did read the manifesto originally but it struck me as a statement of aspiration rather than anything that formed a plan of how they were going to achieve anything. And I don’t believe I’ve seen any kind of coherent thought or action in the past months to give me any kind of confidence or indeed trust in this government.

It’s very sad.

Lathyrus3 Sun 19-Oct-25 12:10:32
"I agree that we can’t expect everything to be fixed in a matter of months. It d be quite happy with a 10 year vision and ongoing plans that detail how the changes will be made.

Please can you direct me to where I can find the plans you mention above and the etcs too".

Hi Lathers, sorry for delay, Sunday took over... Ive tried to work out how to post links but just not managing it. These are things Ive read about in newspaper articles and heard about on PMQs.

Probably best to google "Change- Labour Party Manifesto 2024" and it sets out Labour 10 year plan detail. Then can google individual bills as set out/or that labour has brought in 2024/2025.

Having had both male and female managers throughout my working career. I can see neither similarity nor disimilarity between the see sexes. Every managerhad their own way of managing, good or bad, authoritarian or per.issive.

The only difference I noticed was that young pretty girls could not flannel women manages the way they did men.

There’s an assumption that good managers are key to success in the economy. But…. is this true? Businesses are closing down because of government policies and taxes whether or not management was male or female.

“I think that, despite a few decades of 'feminism', women would, on the whole dispute your concept of women's 'domination' in the workplace, David. There are certainly more of them but men still dominate in key roles.”

I’m certain “ women” would think that, just as men would say otherwise, the fact remains that more women in management positions has not helped the economy one jot, yes you have diversity but positive discriminating as not helped the UK.

Russia adopted neoliberalism, too, David. Which is why the oligarchs became so wealthy. And the rest of the population isn't...

Of course, we must stop confusing Russia with the USSR. Former members of the USSR have developed differently.

Meloni…. Typo

DH advises that the point of Andrew’s thinking is that women gain positions of power - Thatcher, Reeves, Melanie because they have adapted to male models of logic and determination to push through. DH suggests that it’s essential for women seeking power to acquire the skills associated with male leadership!! Hey ho back to the kitchen for me ….

“That's interesting, because as I understand it, under the communist regime Russian education was in some areas very good as the regime strived (strove?) to produced the highly educated workforce needed to advance the state to the same degree of technical ability in many fields in competition with 'the West'.”

All Russia has done since 1990 is adopt western technology, until Crimea was annexed they were doing quite well but very little if any homegrown improvements. That really showed at the start of the Ukraine war, just Cold War weaponry and threat of nuclear retaliation, and had to buy weapons from Iran of all places.
They relied on exporting resources maybe they did improve education they certainly didn’t take advantage of it.

Caleo

To Ronib:- I understand that Russian people are subjected to captive media and misinformation. I also understand that education of children is replaced by indoctrination notably in the cases of stolen Ukrainian children.

I fear that in this there are great similarities between Russia and the UK.

(which was a point I was trying to make earlier, I think)

Andrew’s is partially correct, women becoming more dominant in the workplace has done nothing to improve the UK economy, 3 female PMs hasn’t helped either.

I think that, despite a few decades of 'feminism', women would, on the whole dispute your concept of women's 'domination' in the workplace, David. There are certainly more of them but men still dominate in key roles.

As for 3 women PMs. Thatcher preferred a male Cabinet because she could dominate them, May didn't seek consensus, she was too dependent on a couple of key advisers and was withdrawn (I feel a distinct similarity between her and Starmer) and Truss was just a lettuce.

David49

ronib

My DH has pointed me in the direction of Helen Andrews who spoke at the National Conservatism Conference. Sort of interesting. Andrews is suggesting that the rise of woke is due to increasing feminisation - more women than ever before are taking up key roles which were previously male dominated. This leads to a change in attitudes so instead of the male mindset of logic and not too sure what else, the female culture of emotional responses become dominant.
I am not too sure about this argument because it seems to me that the top tier of power is still held by men.
I think life has improved since the days of the Egyptian pharaohs and Roman emperors but there’s still a fair way to go.
Sorry if this is a bit garbled but I have a cold ….

Andrew’s is partially correct, women becoming more dominant in the workplace has done nothing to improve the UK economy, 3 female PMs hasn’t helped either.

Good grief. Is this a time slip to the 1950s? 😂😂😂
I am not sure what "Andrew's" means in this context, but the word evidence might contain a more useful concept.

David49

ronib

Are the Russians well educated?

Probably not, judging by the enterprise of the state being clever is not encouraged, unless you are amongst Putins oligarch elite.
The old Soviet industry was worn out and not much has been replaced since.

That's interesting, because as I understand it, under the communist regime Russian education was in some areas very good as the regime strived (strove?) to produced the highly educated workforce needed to advance the state to the same degree of technical ability in many fields in competition with 'the West'.

On the other hand, the 'command economy' and discouragement of independent thought and enterprise did lead to inefficiencies and lack of innovation in areas where they weren't competing with the West. Lada cars, anyone?

But, the rise of the oligarch's was a result of the imposition of the neoliberal 'market' economy; which produced much the same inequalities and wealthy 'elites' which we contend with in the west.

David49

There’s more information on Russian education which seems to suggest that the war in Ukraine is having a negative impact on higher education…. Unsurprisingly. Seems that at some point Russian education had been performing satisfactorily as compared to other countries!!

doesn't not does in my reply to M0nica.

M0nica

I disagree with the whole premise of the OP.

Trump like Farage is a populist and and has built his power on being very quick to pick up on what many ordinary people feel and say it out loud. In their turn, others have been quickto jump on the band wagon. Thesegroups disintegrate when the central magnet goes.

These groups exist at every level of society, from choral groups to businesses to politics. How many amateur groupsofanything are destroyed by liques that take over.

These ideas about powerful elitesis bukum. They are as powerful as those who keep them there. Who keeps them there? We do with our votes and complacency.

Look at what has happened to the Conservative party since it lost power. How powerful are their elites now? Lady Mone is a pariah with a priceon her head and Borises closest lieutenantsareshafting him in the Covid enquiry.

Thank you for your point of view M0nica. However, it does seem to relate to the OP. Could you be on the wrong thread perhaps?

ronib

My DH has pointed me in the direction of Helen Andrews who spoke at the National Conservatism Conference. Sort of interesting. Andrews is suggesting that the rise of woke is due to increasing feminisation - more women than ever before are taking up key roles which were previously male dominated. This leads to a change in attitudes so instead of the male mindset of logic and not too sure what else, the female culture of emotional responses become dominant.
I am not too sure about this argument because it seems to me that the top tier of power is still held by men.
I think life has improved since the days of the Egyptian pharaohs and Roman emperors but there’s still a fair way to go.
Sorry if this is a bit garbled but I have a cold ….

Andrew’s is partially correct, women becoming more dominant in the workplace has done nothing to improve the UK economy, 3 female PMs hasn’t helped either.

Had a quick look ronib. Compulsory education from 6 years of age until 17. Pre-school yes, but not necessary.
I imagine the curriculum is strictly regulated. Certain books will most likely be banned.
Also have heard about the indoctrination of stolen Ukrainian children.

A quick look at the Wiki surprises …. David49

ronib

Are the Russians well educated?

Probably not, judging by the enterprise of the state being clever is not encouraged, unless you are amongst Putins oligarch elite.
The old Soviet industry was worn out and not much has been replaced since.

ronib

That’s a very valid point MaizieD. I think Helen Andrews is arguing for a return to one income households - that is women not holding key positions in paid employment. The removal of HR departments so that quotas can’t be applied and so on.
I currently think feminisation would help more than hinder? Haven’t told DH yet ….

Very Gilead!

I don’t disagree Caleo but what is the level of general education in Russia?