Breaking Peace in the Middle East? Continued thread.

There's rather a large difference between dropping a large bomb on an area and it gets whoever is in the area on the one hand (eg Dresden) or deliberately individually picking out people on the other hand (which they've done a lot of - not just children....eg how about journalists?).

Veering a bit and just seen a video recently made saying they bargained on their latest war (ie Gaza) only being 6 weeks in duration and they're broke broke broke now. OOOh.....fingers crossed they are indeed broke and, if we're all lucky, may have to haul back on their constant warmongering accordingly.

Maybe their own take on life that they think they're Special is about to blow straight up in their faces.....as Special people after all don't have to stick to a budget like the rest of us in their opinion.

Perhaps now more data coming out of Gaza will be believed.

Palestinian Hamas killed children, that was deliberate . Bombing does not include and exclude, did UK deliberately kill German children when bombing Dresden

AGAA4

It goes beyond my understanding how anyone can deliberately kill a child.

Most of us feel like that, I think AGAA4

How can they? Just wicked.

Indeed - and I'm not a child person by any stretch of the imagination. 60% of them very deliberately assassinated......!!

I guess what they're doing is deliberately eliminating the next generation as far as they can....basically cold hard - and very cruel - logic of a sort.

It goes beyond my understanding how anyone can deliberately kill a child.

Report on the BBC verifying what Doctors in Gaza have been saying, that 60 per cent of children who have died from gunshot wounds were struck in the head and heart, with precision.
The assassin's double tap.

AGAA4

So many Jews had their homes and all their belongings stolen from them by the Nazis that I wonder why their descendants are doing the same thing to the Palestinians.

With you on that one for sure!

A very good use of the phrase "Do as you would be done by"....but I had that personal experience I mentioned of someone's mother who got punished decades back for speaking Welsh at school - and ever since has been looking for ways to have a go at people for NOT speaking Welsh (ie chucking me out of communal conversations by swopping from the communal language and trying to get that Council workman unfairly dismissed for not speaking Welsh). She should have been the first person to understand (because her mother had been on the receiving end of trouble for not speaking someone else's desired language) - but she was pulling the same sort of "use language to create trouble" stuff that she was complaining about.

What the Nazis did then should have created empathy in their hearts and the hearts of their descendants - but nope....and many are still repeating the bad behaviour of the past.

People should learn from the past and then move on forward. My German friend I had years back couldnt really forgive her mother for having been in the Nazi Youth - though I pointed out she'd probably not been given any option...but that didnt mean she necessarily supported it. In fact mother was there busily handmaking an apron as a present for her daughters English friend (ie me) and neither her mother nor I raised the subject of the past. We had both moved on.

The mature way to be is to learn lessons from the situation and move on. My mother never did learn to forgive the Germans....but my armed forces father was busily making it very plain that the last type of job he wanted me in was the armed forces and he was paying out his money surreptitiously to do things like helping to fund a peace meeting that I'd been astonished to see him turning up at.

As the human race goes on - we are supposed to grow out of war and oppressing other people.

GrannyGravy13

Borders and countries come and go, some through negotiations like the formation of Israel, some through war which is currently the situation in Ukraine.

I should imagine the Ottoman Empire was pretty annoyed at losing this part of the Middle East after 400 years.

I expect the Romans were pretty fed up too, all those rebellions when they just wanted to occupy and dominate and change the name from Judea.
Then the Byzantines
Then the Islamic conquest
The Crusades
Etc.

So many Jews had their homes and all their belongings stolen from them by the Nazis that I wonder why their descendants are doing the same thing to the Palestinians.

Personally - I'd go all the way back to "right the wrongs" to the 1940s. There are still people carrying round keys to houses that got stolen from them back then - or if they're now dead = their (now adult) children own those houses instead.

Just remembering in my own personal life the first thing that ever got stolen from me would have been in grammar school - so we're talking the 1960s then - yep....I'd still like back the cut-out map thing of Britain that went missing from my satchel (though I'd have no use for it now - other than breaking it over the head of the thief concerned) and I'd still like to find a way to punish the thief. Theft being unavenged and recompense needing to be made goes back decades and the slate does not "get wiped clean". History doesn't get conveniently rewritten and offenders forgiven/let off the hook whilst there's still "living memory".

Maybe some of the people who had their houses stolen off them, for instance, managed to nip back under cover of darkness and at least set fire to and destroy their house - wouldnt get their house back for them...but would make them feel a whole lot better in their minds. But there'd still be the loss of their house..

AGAA4

Israel has been a state since 1948 so have to accept that.
I can't accept Israel taking more land and ousting the people who live there from their homes.

That is how I feel, no more incursions and land grabs into the West Bank.

I am all for a two State solution, unfortunately I think that is a long way off.

Israel has been a state since 1948 so have to accept that.
I can't accept Israel taking more land and ousting the people who live there from their homes.

Serious question = have you got any sympathies with the Palestinians? Do you see and understand they are being restricted in their own country and are having their own country chipped away at bit by bit? Are you sorry for what is happening to them? Do you want their lives to get back to normal?

Borders and countries come and go, some through negotiations like the formation of Israel, some through war which is currently the situation in Ukraine.

I should imagine the Ottoman Empire was pretty annoyed at losing this part of the Middle East after 400 years.

What THEY say is their "homeland". Corrected that for you.

A very obvious first question to any of them individually would be "Why and when did you or your parents move from Palestine in the first place?" I'd expect them to look very blankfaced - as I don't suppose they/their personal family have ever lived there. They're welcome to produce their/their parents birth certificate to prove it obviously....and we could see that they/their parents had been born there in Jerusalem or wherever else it was in Palestine to prove they really are Palestinians.

Interestingly enough - I've just been watching a documentary where one of the Zionist arguments that Palestine is their country and not a problem is that they argued it was an empty country/no-one much living there and the narrator went on to produce it most definitely was populated and the proof (including from a British direction) that this was indeed the case. Basically it boiled down to "We're saying it's empty and it's ours - so we can move in on it" and very conveniently ignored the evidence it's someone else's - but not theirs.

One cannot equate a religion with a race. Jewishness is a religion. Christianity is another religion - but that doesn't mean I can turn round and go "I can say any Christian country of my choice IS my country" and then just go and settle there. Thinks - I'm on my way to Denmark again now and tell them "You're a Christian country too - so you must be my country if I decide you are and I don't have to do any applying for a passport etc etc".

Meanwhile - I think it's best if these distractions stop and we get back on track of "What is happening in Palestine and is there anything we can do to stop all this warfare/land-grabbing/etc?"

Blimey, so yet again Jews are being denied their homeland…

Chat GPT's answer to when Palestine was first called Palestine gets a bit long and involved - with various references. But concludes with "so the name Palestine in some recognizable form dates back over 3,000 years".

In some peoples usage there are personal preferences as to whether they use the commonly known name or another name they personally prefer and one can often tell where they are from/who they support by the name they choose to use.

I have just checked Chat GPT and asked it what is meant by Palestine and it's reply was "Palestine is still commonly used to describe the geographic region between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan river, including what are now called Israel, West Bank and Gaza".

So yep....I mean exactly the same as Chat GPT means. I'd say that's authoritative enough for most people.

I am British - ie English in my case. English mother (she'd call herself "Cornish" - but she's English), English father.

CariadAgain has said she was born in England

CariadAgain

You obviously mix in very different circles to me. That's all it is.

Your circles call it that. Mine call it Palestine. Others refer to "Gaza and the occupied West Bank" - which your circles probably call those names and call the rest of Palestine your preferred name.

I find it makes life more difficult because of the censor or two on this thread. Perhaps everyone should stand up and go "I'm not a censor - I'm in the clear....I never censor things just because I personally don't like them. Not me yer honour honest....." - rather than the usual "Oh...it musta been GransNet...honest". .......

Perhaps those who are the censors on thread or know for sure who they are could stop that and then one doesn't have to deal with this...

One wonders which circle Cariad moves in------. a circle which insist 'Palestine' is a geographical not a political category'

I suggest Cariad as a Welshwoman is conscious that Wales is a geographical/ historical category. And as such should be an independent politically . And that Palestine is like Wales. If so I fully support Cariad.

But with the proviso that Israel is a done deal, unfortunate as it is, and has to be recognised as a state.

More than one Roman!!

The Roman called the whole Palestine, I believe, hence Jesus of Palestine.
However, the land of Israel pre-dates that.

You obviously mix in very different circles to me. That's all it is.

Your circles call it that. Mine call it Palestine. Others refer to "Gaza and the occupied West Bank" - which your circles probably call those names and call the rest of Palestine your preferred name.

I find it makes life more difficult because of the censor or two on this thread. Perhaps everyone should stand up and go "I'm not a censor - I'm in the clear....I never censor things just because I personally don't like them. Not me yer honour honest....." - rather than the usual "Oh...it musta been GransNet...honest". .......

Perhaps those who are the censors on thread or know for sure who they are could stop that and then one doesn't have to deal with this...

You’re the first and only person I have ever heard of that doesn’t call Israel by its name.
Whatever floats your boat, but it’s confusing on threads.