Grooming gangs in London

Wyllow Maggie Oliver isn't behind the inquiry, although there's obviously a big overlap. Louise Casey's report promised the victims of the gangs a report focussed specifically on them.

I'm not claiming the victims are right to want an exclusive report, but it is true that they've been let down very badly in the past and they need to be able to trust without being patronised. They trusted what Casey promised them and feel let down - yet again.

Maremia

Why is it uncomfortable for some of you to admit that there are rapist gangs who are not Asian?
If there is going to be an investigation, make it worthwhile.
Prosecute them all.

The issue is that the victims of the Asian grooming gangs were promised an inquiry which would focus only on them, not the wider issue of child sexual abuse. It would appear that there are now pressures to include non-Asian gangs and other forms of abuse. I'm not sure where those pressures are coming from or whether they're even real pressures.

Precisely. It matters a great deal that ALL gangs/abuse is taken seriously. No free passes to white gangs and exploitation of women and girls.

Maggie Olivers organisation does deal with all abuse issues, after all. she wa mentioned upthread as being interviewed on GB news.

Well, here is her website

www.themaggieoliverfoundation.com

I quote the headlines

"The Maggie Oliver Foundation (TMOF) exists to create a society where survivors and those at risk of childhood sexual abuse and exploitation (CSAE) are empowered to live fulfilled and successful lives,

and where every survivor is treated with dignity, respect and as an equal and valued member of society.

We can only provide emotional support and legal advocacy to those who are based in United Kingdom"

Casdon

I’m confused now. The inquiry is not specifically about Asian Grooming Gangs. It is about Grooming Gangs in the UK?

Indeed. And whether the ethnicity of gangs influenced the way in which they were investigated and prosecuted.

This is the crux of why ethnicity is a vital issue in this enquiry. And why the testimony of the victims is so crucial.

And for your information, the Thread title says 'grooming gangs'.

I’m confused now. The inquiry is not specifically about Asian Grooming Gangs. It is about Grooming Gangs in the UK?

Actually, I don't believe this will be kicked down the road. Not now. Too much is being said about it.

Listen to all victims. Justice for all.

Why is it uncomfortable for some of you to admit that there are rapist gangs who are not Asian?
If there is going to be an investigation, make it worthwhile.
Prosecute them all.

petra

Maremia

And 2003 is an awful long time ago.

Which only proves my point that the can will be kicked down the road again.
I

But it isn’t because there’s an enquiry. Maybe accuse the government if nothing results from it but it’s ongoing isn’t it?

Maremia

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

Deflection

This is about Asian grooming gangs.

If you are concerned about other ethnic grooming gangs maybe start a thread…

Maremia

And 2003 is an awful long time ago.

Which only proves my point that the can will be kicked down the road again.
I

Show bias neither way. Call them all out.

Allsorts

Everyone knows these gangs are Asian, who almost have a free ticket because you cant mention race even if its the truth.. You have to ask yourself why that is. Is it because people at the top are involved. I am glad those two girls had the courage to walk away, perhaps now the papers will get involved in finding out every last one of those involved.
Maggie is the only person you can trust,

They were too scared of being called racists by saying the gangs were Asian. There can’t be a person alive who does not know that.

Those kids were called things like “filthy white trash” all the time. Shows you who the real racists are.

MayBee70

I think a modern day problem is trying to avoid any sort of bias because I know for a fact that I’m biased about a lot of things even though I’m aware if it and try to avoid it.

Good for you.

Coming onto this forum, it was an eye opener, how biased posters are.
I know some in real life, but seeing it all written down on social media, and seeing it all daily, it has been very surprising.

This whole conversation is oversimplified and narrow. If the premise of the problem is seen in such a way all we can expect are oversimplified and narrow solutions. But at least it distracts it's proponents away from reality - exactly as intended.

I think a modern day problem is trying to avoid any sort of bias because I know for a fact that I’m biased about a lot of things even though I’m aware if it and try to avoid it.

And 2003 is an awful long time ago.

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

petra

MayBee70 As I explained earlier Tony Blair was presented with evidence in 2003 by the MP for Keithley, Anne Cryer.
She was labelled a racist by many in the higher echelons of the party.
If you listen to the link I put up ( it’s on BBC sounds) it will explain why people are so angry with the Labour Party.
Labour were in power for 13 years while this cancer was ( and sill is ) growing in our communities.
And happening right now as we are posting 🤬
If someone had had the bollocks to grasp the nettle 22 years ago we might have stood a chance of wiping it out.
But it’s too late now 😥

This is oversimplifying matters and has a fundamental misunderstanding of how different attitudes were in 2003 to the present day.

In 2003 few police had a real, profound understanding of how a web of deceit and fear surrounds victims so that they could (and still cannot) not provide adequate evidence for the then standards of prosecution. It was still endemic in the C of E, for example.

It was often regarded as shameful to report abuse by both the victims and their families, and the total lack of specialist police teams (except for proven cases regarding younger children) made it impossible to "join the dots".

Men still regarded themselves as having rights to abuse their partners and their children on a huge scale. Quite often, SSD were aware of abuse, but could not provide the evidence then needed.

Bruises, beatings, were recognised: they are visible:

but co-ercion and the apparent willingness of the victims to participate in what happened was literally not part of the "police handbook" at the time".

As regards abuse and the safeguarding of adults/young adults it was not until the Care Act 2014 which extended safeguarding duties to cover adults at risk, placing a general duty on local authorities to promote the wellbeing of individuals, and it took a lot longer for the police to understand the psychology of co-ercion and for the CPS to likewise have procedures to follow.

*and of course in some cases the police themselves actively joined in the rape and other sorts of abuse (ref whats still going on in Charing Cross - compared with the very decent policemen I met whilst pursuing an abusive husband.

This was in 2022, and although they in theory recognised coercion, in practice they did not know the questions to ask to "prove" abuse. They wanted/needed Written or recorded evidence.

How can some young woman who isnt articulate, doesnt trust the police anyway..

Everyone knows these gangs are Asian, who almost have a free ticket because you cant mention race even if its the truth.. You have to ask yourself why that is. Is it because people at the top are involved. I am glad those two girls had the courage to walk away, perhaps now the papers will get involved in finding out every last one of those involved.
Maggie is the only person you can trust,

What matters is getting the right person to lead the investigation. The two victims interviewed on BBC news tonight took different approaches: one said she didn't want to take part anymore, another said she very much did as it was important to bring people to justice.

The problem is that anyone who has been in the police or Social Services is not easily trusted because of what happened, but on the other hand it has to be someone who has a good knowledge of the Law and Social Services "in practice".

It's a difficult one. Prof Jay was the leader the separate Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse (IICSA), a probe which lasted seven years and made all the recommendations, believes that more inquiries just delay the process of putting the recommendations into practice

The Labour MP for Rotherham, Sarah Champion, has been at the forefront of calling for Justice since 2015 consistently and persistently and she has always been behind a full enquiry, and of course of it was a Muslim, Nazir Afzal, who intimated the first prosecutions.

So what is needed is someone who has the knowledge and experience that will command respect from all parties, no easy matter: it will happen: we may not have needed this enquiry if the government in 2022 seriously enacted the recommendations which relate to cover ups.

I think investigations should include cover ups which involve all ethnic groups. Cover ups can take many forms, the reasons for unwillingness to believe victims is not just for overt political reasons.

It can be from backward looking police officers who still don't really believe the testimony of victims and still believe its party the victims fault - or simply refuse to allocate resources: or are short of resources as they are overwhelmed with incidents happening in the present

MayBee70 As I explained earlier Tony Blair was presented with evidence in 2003 by the MP for Keithley, Anne Cryer.
She was labelled a racist by many in the higher echelons of the party.
If you listen to the link I put up ( it’s on BBC sounds) it will explain why people are so angry with the Labour Party.
Labour were in power for 13 years while this cancer was ( and sill is ) growing in our communities.
And happening right now as we are posting 🤬
If someone had had the bollocks to grasp the nettle 22 years ago we might have stood a chance of wiping it out.
But it’s too late now 😥

Historically, societies across the globe have been faced with issues of crime, exploitation, and violence. The phenomenon of organised crime, including gangs, brothels, and various forms of abuse, is not a recent development nor a problem existing only in particular definable groups. These are deeply rooted issues in human history and are often driven by factors such as poverty, social inequality, and lack of opportunity.

In major cities throughout history, activities such as brothels and illegal trade have operated openly or clandestinely, often exploiting vulnerable populations, including children. Poverty has historically been a significant catalyst for law-breaking and exploitation. When individuals lack access to education, employment, and social support, they may turn to illegal activities as a means of survival. This dynamic is universal and not restricted to any one community or ethnicity.

Gangs too, have been part of human civilisation for centuries. They often form in marginalised communities seeking protection or identity in the face of social neglect. Their existence is intertwined with larger issues like economic disparity, institutional neglect, and social fragmentation; factors that are found across all societies, regardless of ethnicity or religion.

Focusing solely on ethnicity or religion as the source of these problems is a form of misdirection that diverts us from systemic issues. It encourages stereotypes and discrimination. Recognising that these problems are universal and historically persistent encourages a more constructive approach. One that aims to address underlying social issues rather than scapegoat specific groups.

Kate1949

It seems that being or appearing racist is the worst thing anyone can be these days. Yes it's awful but fear of being accused of it really has gone too far.

Definitely gone too far.