Grooming gangs in London

I don’t agree that agencies “pretended it wasn’t happening”. We’ve all seen shocking examples of girls and their families being very badly served by police, sw and other agencies.

Yes growstuff, changes were made in police and social work. We need an inquiry focussed solely on organised child sexuality exploitation by men of largely Muslim Pakistani background, on white girls, children and some boys.

I have always believed the majority of these men are unlikely to confine their abuse to children outside their families, Its safeguarding practice to investigate whether an abuser has access to children at work or in family

Maggie Oliver has and is doing some positive work with victims and survivors. She is unsuitable to chair this inquiry because she is not independent.

fancythat

Wyllow3

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

Deflection

This is about Asian grooming gangs.

If you are concerned about other ethnic grooming gangs maybe start a thread…

No - if we think the issues are about all grooming gangs but of course that does mean all so includes those concerns.

Given that the thread is entitled Grooming Gangs in London we are off on a wider brief already.

Wyllow3 - were you grromed yourself?
By non Asians?

Several of us seem to find your constant deflection posts quite difficult to understand.

Hear, hear.

As women we should all feel great sympathy for these abused girls. What they went through at the hands of Asian grooming gangs is horrific.

It is very obvious and confirmed that these gangs have been doing this for decades now with no signs of stopping so an enquiry is badly needed. It is also without doubt that covering up the ethnicity of the perpetrators was completely wrong and actually allowed them to get away with their evil abuse.

Yes, we all know there are non Asian groomers but not on the same scale. They are equally dreadful. Month after month there are more Asian gangs exposed all over the country.

It’s carrying on because for too long those in authority pretended it wasn’t happening. I also blame the families. Surely as a wife or mother you must think something is very wrong if your husband/son is always out for hours on end. Maybe they keep quiet because they are no longer required to have sex with their husbands because they are getting it by drugging and raping white girls.

Allira

GrannyGravy13

StripeyGran non of the political parties will come out of this well.

There is plenty of oh but the Conservatives didn’t do this or Labour councillors kept quiet in the media and on GN.

I don’t give a flying pig who is in Government, I just want the perpetrators held to account. In this context it means the Pakistani grooming gangs, along with the now disclosed grooming gangs in and around London.

In my opinion the current enquiry should focus on the Pakistani grooming gangs and not be side tracked or watered down with other testimonies of abuse.

Maybe there should be a separate investigation into sexual/coercive abuse in the U.K.?

I don’t give a flying pig who is in Government, I just want the perpetrators held to account.

I agree absolutely, Grannygravy13, and also those in authority who failed the girls too should be held to account. They had a part to play in the continuing abuse by their attitudes, both to the girls and for the fact that they put a fear of being thought racist above the wellbeing of young, vulnerable girls. There were and probably still are gangs of different ethnicities and nationalities and this should never be a consideration in investigating crimes such as this.

There are few who seem unafraid to face the facts and tell it as it is, Maggie Oliver for one. Why?

I wasn't going to post again on here but I am so 😡 about this I have. I am also annoyed by the constant red herrings and straw arguments thrown about.

Allira
It’s the GN equivalent of the Me Too movement.

Wyllow3

GrannyGravy13

Maremia

If help and justice is to come, it should come for all victims, not just the victims of a chosen ethnicity.

Deflection

This is about Asian grooming gangs.

If you are concerned about other ethnic grooming gangs maybe start a thread…

No - if we think the issues are about all grooming gangs but of course that does mean all so includes those concerns.

Given that the thread is entitled Grooming Gangs in London we are off on a wider brief already.

Wyllow3 - were you grromed yourself?
By non Asians?

Several of us seem to find your constant deflection posts quite difficult to understand.

Maremia

The only thing I know is the the BBC has an ongoing survey into Police responses to Victims making accusations to them for investigation of sexual assault, and it makes for grim listening.

That doesn't surprise me. More than anything, I think some police forces need to weed out misogyny.

I'm currently reading this article:

journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0306396819895727

It's a long read (it's taken me 45 minutes so far and I'm only half way through) and is from 2000, but lots is still relevant today and it goes beyond what papers and TV programmes usually report.

It's scary how much CSA has become politicised by people who couldn't really care less. The real victims continue to be let down.

Allira

Kate1949

Jess Phillips. Another MP pretending she cares. Until the chips are down.

I think Jess Phillips does care very much. I'm not sure just what happened (she said, she said scenario) but she always comes across as a sensible, down-to-earth, caring MP.

My understanding from Fiona Goddard's letter is ...

Louise Casey promised the victims/survivors that there would be an inquiry dedicated exclusively to the abuse of white girls by men of Asian/Pakistani heritage.

Some people in government and in other groups have claimed that the inquiry should include other forms of CSA. AFAIK the motivation for that is that the kind of CSA commonly known as "grooming gangs" and perpetuated by Asian males is actually only a minority of the CSA which happens in the UK. A focus on Asian/Pakistani gangs who abuse white girls stigmatises Asian males and gives the impression that all of them are sexual predators.

There's an obvious conflict here. FWIW I think both sides have a strong case, but the Jay Report has already reported on CSA in general (not that much seems to have been done.)

Jess Phillips told Fiona Goddard (one of the survivors) that she personally believes that the inquiry should focus solely on Pakistani abuse of white girls, but felt that she had to consult with other parties before the remit for the inquiry is set in stone. Fiona is now claiming that there are moves to include other cases. Jess denied that and Fiona has called out Jess for calling her a liar.

The four who have resigned from the panel have said they won't return unless Jess Phillips resigns or is sacked. Curiously, Maggie Oliver is saying the same thing, using very similar vocabulary, although that could be a coincidence. There are calls for MO to chair the inquiry.

The only thing I know is the the BBC has an ongoing survey into Police responses to Victims making accusations to them for investigation of sexual assault, and it makes for grim listening.

I'm cynical in my old age.

Allira

Kate1949

Jess Phillips. Another MP pretending she cares. Until the chips are down.

I think Jess Phillips does care very much. I'm not sure just what happened (she said, she said scenario) but she always comes across as a sensible, down-to-earth, caring MP.

I agree with you very much Allira. From what I've seen of Jess Phillips, I think she is genuinely passionate and committed to supporting women and children. In fact, she's sometimes so passionate, she's not always very diplomatic and has a habit of putting her foot in her mouth.

I hope she manages to arrange a meeting with the four panellists who have resigned without the media reporting every word which is said. Maybe there can be some kind of reconciliation. I suspect she cares about them very much.

Maremia

No-one to turn to, then.
Is there evidence that people are listening to new Victims now?
Inquiries take forever. Justice can take even longer.
This Inquiry can't get off the ground, which will suit some 'players'.
Is there another route?

I'd be interested in answers to that question.

Historic abuse must not be swept under the carpet, but it must not be at the expense of what's happening now.

Does anybody know from personal experience (of working in children's services or the police maybe) whether there have been any improvements. Have attitudes changed? Are abused children listened to? Has there been any organisational change?

Heat of the moment sort of comment?
Caught out by jibes and taunts?
Happens everywhere. Not always evidence of real feelings and intent.

Kate1949

Jess Phillips. Another MP pretending she cares. Until the chips are down.

I think Jess Phillips does care very much. I'm not sure just what happened (she said, she said scenario) but she always comes across as a sensible, down-to-earth, caring MP.

Kate1949

Jess Phillips. Another MP pretending she cares. Until the chips are down.

What evidence do you have that she doesn't care, apart from second hand reports which have been passed round the social media grapevine?

No-one to turn to, then.
Is there evidence that people are listening to new Victims now?
Inquiries take forever. Justice can take even longer.
This Inquiry can't get off the ground, which will suit some 'players'.
Is there another route?

Jane43

Sorry Terribull I did not see your post I was repeating the case you describe, it has always been on my mind because it is so close to where we live and was also in the home town of our two granddaughters.

I do hope all the girls of that town are safe now, like other hot spots, there are quite a number of them, Telford has had many young girls fall victims to these gangs. The fate of Lucy Lowe and her family was truly horrific.

Jess Phillips. Another MP pretending she cares. Until the chips are down.

TerriBull

Some were in care, and the grooming that took place in the care homes has been written about ad infinitum now. I don't think anyone can be in doubt just how exploited those young girls were.

Those who lived at home didn't always fare much better, as not only were they threatened so were their families. The worst case scenario is this case. Lucy Lowe of Telford, groomed and exploited from the age of 12 by 26 year old taxi driver Azhar Ali Mehmood, who set fire to her house killing 16 year old Lucy, her unborn child, her 17 year old disabled sister and her 49 year old mother. Her father survived. The scumbag escaped with Tasnim his baby daughter that this murdered child Lucy had previously given birth to. Thankfully George Lowe the surviving member of the family won custody of granddaughter Tasnim after a legal battle with her paternal family.

I didn’t know about that case. So, so very sad 😔

Mt61

She means appoint the rapist copper.
A copper was pointed out to MO as being a rapist.

Growstuff

Sorry Terribull I did not see your post I was repeating the case you describe, it has always been on my mind because it is so close to where we live and was also in the home town of our two granddaughters.

Maremia

Were the girls not in care? And therefore living away from their families?

The docudrama Three Girls shows that one of the girls was from a close family; she got involved with the groomers when the family moved house and she was seeking new friends. The groomers threatened her not to speak out by saying they would burn the family house down and rape her sister, she was terrified of them. Four miles from us there were grooming gangs, one of the gang members started a relationship with one of their victims and had a child with her, she tried to break away from him when she was expecting his second child because he was abusive, she moved back in with her parents, he set fire to the family house first removing his daughter into the garden, everybody died except the girl’s father who was out of the house at the time. These people are evil and Imams have a responsibility to stop the thinking behind this kind of medieval behaviour.

Some were in care, and the grooming that took place in the care homes has been written about ad infinitum now. I don't think anyone can be in doubt just how exploited those young girls were.

Those who lived at home didn't always fare much better, as not only were they threatened so were their families. The worst case scenario is this case. Lucy Lowe of Telford, groomed and exploited from the age of 12 by 26 year old taxi driver Azhar Ali Mehmood, who set fire to her house killing 16 year old Lucy, her unborn child, her 17 year old disabled sister and her 49 year old mother. Her father survived. The scumbag escaped with Tasnim his baby daughter that this murdered child Lucy had previously given birth to. Thankfully George Lowe the surviving member of the family won custody of granddaughter Tasnim after a legal battle with her paternal family.

GrannyGravy13

StripeyGran non of the political parties will come out of this well.

There is plenty of oh but the Conservatives didn’t do this or Labour councillors kept quiet in the media and on GN.

I don’t give a flying pig who is in Government, I just want the perpetrators held to account. In this context it means the Pakistani grooming gangs, along with the now disclosed grooming gangs in and around London.

In my opinion the current enquiry should focus on the Pakistani grooming gangs and not be side tracked or watered down with other testimonies of abuse.

Maybe there should be a separate investigation into sexual/coercive abuse in the U.K.?

I don’t give a flying pig who is in Government, I just want the perpetrators held to account.

I agree absolutely, Grannygravy13, and also those in authority who failed the girls too should be held to account. They had a part to play in the continuing abuse by their attitudes, both to the girls and for the fact that they put a fear of being thought racist above the wellbeing of young, vulnerable girls. There were and probably still are gangs of different ethnicities and nationalities and this should never be a consideration in investigating crimes such as this.

There are few who seem unafraid to face the facts and tell it as it is, Maggie Oliver for one. Why?

I wasn't going to post again on here but I am so 😡 about this I have. I am also annoyed by the constant red herrings and straw arguments thrown about.

Maremia

It is also being reported that not all Victims think that Jess Phillips is at fault.
And that is an evolving barrier to justice, which of course will suit any who wish to derail the process.

JP’s hysterical, shouty outburst the other day shows that no way does she have the correct qualities to be involved in the enquiry. She has not helped herself. One of the victims said this on TV last night. She was far more eloquent and level headed than JP.

StripeyGran

*non of the political parties will come out of this well*

Yes, indeed.

What a sad mess.

Yes. That’s one of the reasons I didn’t vote Tory. All as bad as each other in in my opinion