Disgust - The Reform party Racist Sarah Pochlin

Wyllow3 in that case why were Henry VIII’s wives played by black actresses in Six

GrannyGravy13

Wyllow3

I liked for example Bridgerton on Netflix which casts black people as such and includes just a hint about social acceptability for those people. I also like black people appearing in Shakespeares plays not just as Othello. I doubt decisions are made to cast people not up to the job - have you any single example of where this has taken place?

It's to make say Shakespeare accessible to all, thats the point

Drama is gifted to us, including both entertainment or OTOH tragedy, to help us understand our place in the world, what we make of life itself, its twists and turns, its joys and its sorrows.

*It makes sense to me that as we have a diverse population, and we have had for a long time now, that viewers/readers all can recognise themselves in these dramas of our lives*

I do not entirely agree with you on this.

Nobody would accept a white actor playing Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X or Ghandi.

Goodness, me, of course there are limits. when it's biography or autobiography. I really don't see how that undermines my point in any way at all.

I wouldn't expect a black actor to be playing Hitler or Mussolini or 🤣 Donald Trump

Shakespeare dealt with it head on with Shylock, of course as well as Othello.

The Merchant of Venice is controversial, as it has been criticised for perpetuating anti-Semitic stereotypes, but also for providing a platform to deconstruct anti-Semitism through Shylock's famous "Hath not a Jew eyes?" speech and his forced conversion at the end.

Othello - well, the evil whisperer Iago partly uses his race to undermine him, his vulnerability on that point.

Yes, drama is important in our lives, and the discourses on race are part of it, and the need to hire black actors completely to the point.

Wyllow3

I liked for example Bridgerton on Netflix which casts black people as such and includes just a hint about social acceptability for those people. I also like black people appearing in Shakespeares plays not just as Othello. I doubt decisions are made to cast people not up to the job - have you any single example of where this has taken place?

It's to make say Shakespeare accessible to all, thats the point

Drama is gifted to us, including both entertainment or OTOH tragedy, to help us understand our place in the world, what we make of life itself, its twists and turns, its joys and its sorrows.

*It makes sense to me that as we have a diverse population, and we have had for a long time now, that viewers/readers all can recognise themselves in these dramas of our lives*

I do not entirely agree with you on this.

Nobody would accept a white actor playing Nelson Mandela, Martin Luther King, Malcolm X or Ghandi.

Teazel2

MaizieD

Teazel2

growstuff

Teazel2

vegansrock

No it wasn’t just stating a fact - she said “ it makes me mad to see…” which is stating she hates seeing black people mopping the floor or buying a sofa.

Yes it was just stating a fact. Just read Littlejohn’s column in the DM. He puts his finger on reality as usual.

There is noproblem with skin colour, sexual preferences or anything else with the way others choose to live. I am just really cheesed off with having it all rammed down my throat all the time.

What is the "it" you're tired of having rammed down your throat?

You know exactly what I mean! Equality and diversity have become the new buzzwords. I dont have a problem with any of it, tbh I barely think of colour, sexual orientation etc. people are people and I am absolutely non judgemental. Happiness and being kind are what matters but it feels as though we are having equality and diversity absolutely rammed down our throats as if we are all racist or homophobic! Its wrong.

If you 'don't have a problem' with equality and diversity why do you think that initiatives to promote it are 'wrong'?

This makes no sense at all to me...

It should be a complete non issue. The photo of KS taking the knee made me feel sick. What a twat!

It was a non issue until a racist Reform MP opened her mouth.

I liked for example Bridgerton on Netflix which casts black people as such and includes just a hint about social acceptability for those people. I also like black people appearing in Shakespeares plays not just as Othello. I doubt decisions are made to cast people not up to the job - have you any single example of where this has taken place?

It's to make say Shakespeare accessible to all, thats the point

Drama is gifted to us, including both entertainment or OTOH tragedy, to help us understand our place in the world, what we make of life itself, its twists and turns, its joys and its sorrows.

It makes sense to me that as we have a diverse population, and we have had for a long time now, that viewers/readers all can recognise themselves in these dramas of our lives

Apologies, I haven't read the whole thread, (half term child minding), but this person has a point. The arty farty world does currently seem to allocate parts to black performers on a cut-and-dried quota basis, not always on talent. DGodD has been in show business for 20 years now, and says it is very noticeable how at auditions a white girl may be turned down in favour of a black girl because that is what the production numbers stipulate these days. Like for example the cast of the musical Six where two of Henry V111's stage wives are black!
Casting should be done on merit, regardless of race. It's just that proportionately things are now happening in an overly exaggerated manner, for whatever reason.

It's just common sense, which we as women use all the time, what ever the background.

I welcome Diversity and Inclusion concepts as long as they are not overdone. Benign intentions help us better all live together are fine by me and going back a long time when boards for prompting equality for women and ethnic minorities were completely needful. I welcome adverts that just quietly have diversity in them.

All the Pochlin fuss about "proportionality" is just stupid and very, very racist. It backs up racist preconceptions

Given the fact we still have many racists in the country, its necessary and educational both in drama, in adverts, and in newsreaders and announcers

Lathyrus3

No Teazle that’s not prejudice. That’s self preservation.🙂

😉

No Teazle that’s not prejudice. That’s self preservation.🙂

Lathyrus3

I think we’ve all got prejudices Teazel. Even people who really believe they are enlightened will display tendencies to favour one group over another or dislike people from one specific group. Usually based on some negative experience or perception of a small sample that they then apply to the whole group.

It doesn’t have to have anything to do with race or colour. Think of all the Essex jibes and people who say they’d never go to Butlins as examples.

It isn’t always overt. Sometimes it shows in shrugging off what happens to a particular group. A kind of I don’t care what happens to them or a well they deserve it.

I can feel anxious about behaviours, such as young men on trains, drinking lager and swearing or a large group of males in wetherspoons Stansted who sat near us, drinking and swearing in the early hours of the morning. Not sure that counts as prejudice though.

Maremia

Aaargh! Listened to that interview. Robert Lowe shows himself to be a bullying bore. He wanted a monologue, not an interview.
Interesting about the actual number of grooming gangs. But you only hear about the selected ones.

He is an incredibly rude man, shouty, arrogant and condescending to Emily Maitlis just as Farage was to Mishal Husain. Why women who have been the victims of sexual violence see him as a spokesperson is beyond me. It’s only done to promote his own abject racism and Islamophobia else he would be just as concerned about white grooming gangs.

He has defended Tommy Robinson when dozens of the latter’s followers have been convicted of offences against women and girls. I don't want to distract from the main thread which is about Pochin but to illustrate that, just the first page of a list of far-right sex offenders. Note those connected to Reform or UKIP.

It’s true what Diane Abbott said about no people manacled on slave ships because of their race.

It’s also true that people were herded into gas chambers because of their race.

That’s what I mean about being able to shrug off what happened to others that you don’t care about.

Both of those appalling times were about race. I’m afraid Diane displayed her own racism there.

Aaargh! Listened to that interview. Robert Lowe shows himself to be a bullying bore. He wanted a monologue, not an interview.
Interesting about the actual number of grooming gangs. But you only hear about the selected ones.

I think we’ve all got prejudices Teazel. Even people who really believe they are enlightened will display tendencies to favour one group over another or dislike people from one specific group. Usually based on some negative experience or perception of a small sample that they then apply to the whole group.

It doesn’t have to have anything to do with race or colour. Think of all the Essex jibes and people who say they’d never go to Butlins as examples.

It isn’t always overt. Sometimes it shows in shrugging off what happens to a particular group. A kind of I don’t care what happens to them or a well they deserve it.

Having had chats with our gay friends (male and female) they all feel uncomfortable about Pride Month.

Similar chats with our ethnic friends find them non-plussed about Black History Month, they feel that over publicity others them.

Trying overly hard to be inclusive can have the opposite effect of what was desired.

MaizieD

Teazel2

growstuff

Teazel2

vegansrock

No it wasn’t just stating a fact - she said “ it makes me mad to see…” which is stating she hates seeing black people mopping the floor or buying a sofa.

Yes it was just stating a fact. Just read Littlejohn’s column in the DM. He puts his finger on reality as usual.

There is noproblem with skin colour, sexual preferences or anything else with the way others choose to live. I am just really cheesed off with having it all rammed down my throat all the time.

What is the "it" you're tired of having rammed down your throat?

You know exactly what I mean! Equality and diversity have become the new buzzwords. I dont have a problem with any of it, tbh I barely think of colour, sexual orientation etc. people are people and I am absolutely non judgemental. Happiness and being kind are what matters but it feels as though we are having equality and diversity absolutely rammed down our throats as if we are all racist or homophobic! Its wrong.

If you 'don't have a problem' with equality and diversity why do you think that initiatives to promote it are 'wrong'?

This makes no sense at all to me...

It should be a complete non issue. The photo of KS taking the knee made me feel sick. What a twat!

I find adverts in general irritate. Do we really want to hear about someone's pee?

Apart from the Gillette one but, as an old woman, I'm not supposed to say that, I suppose.

Teazel2

growstuff

Teazel2

vegansrock

No it wasn’t just stating a fact - she said “ it makes me mad to see…” which is stating she hates seeing black people mopping the floor or buying a sofa.

Yes it was just stating a fact. Just read Littlejohn’s column in the DM. He puts his finger on reality as usual.

There is noproblem with skin colour, sexual preferences or anything else with the way others choose to live. I am just really cheesed off with having it all rammed down my throat all the time.

What is the "it" you're tired of having rammed down your throat?

You know exactly what I mean! Equality and diversity have become the new buzzwords. I dont have a problem with any of it, tbh I barely think of colour, sexual orientation etc. people are people and I am absolutely non judgemental. Happiness and being kind are what matters but it feels as though we are having equality and diversity absolutely rammed down our throats as if we are all racist or homophobic! Its wrong.

If you 'don't have a problem' with equality and diversity why do you think that initiatives to promote it are 'wrong'?

This makes no sense at all to me...

Lowers the heat.

You certainly do, and that's the GN way. Sometimes we need a wee diversion.

Kandinsky

*So it shouldn't matter one jot what kind of people are featured in the ads*

People are being extremely naive about advertising here.
Forget the race thing for a minute, if you’re selling an anti wrinkle cream you’re not going to have a 70 year old man in your advert. You’re going to have a younger women.
Most adverts have young people in them no matter what’s being advertised ( unless of course you’re watching ITV3 with all the ‘pure cremations’ & stairlift adverts )
Adverts are aimed at people who will buy the product - so advertisers will have people in them who represent their target audience.

Forget the race thing for a minute, if you’re selling an anti wrinkle cream you’re not going to have a 70 year old man in your advert. You’re going to have a younger women.

But we want to see the after pictures, not the before pictures, so showing an older woman with lovely skin (it won't be totally wrinkle-free of course) would be a selling point. Showing a younger woman and promising she'll still look like that in 20 years time if she uses a certain moisturiser is probably false advertising.

Anyway, I digress.

Emily Maitlis challenging Rupert Lowe on why he isn’t interested in white grooming gangs. 27 minutes in:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwVuCFo2GYM

I’m glad you brought up Diane Abbott and racism because it is relevant in the context of Sarah Pochin.

If we are talking about the same incident, her letter to The Guardian in April 2023, Pochin’s behaviour does rather reinforce what Abbott was saying.

A reminder of the Abbott letter:

Racism is black and white

Tomiwa Owolade claims that Irish, Jewish and Traveller people all suffer from “racism” (“Racism in Britain is not a black and white issue. It’s far more complicated”, Comment). They undoubtedly experience prejudice. This is similar to racism and the two words are often used as if they are interchangeable.

It is true that many types of white people with points of difference, such as redheads, can experience this prejudice. But they are not all their lives subject to racism. In pre-civil rights America, Irish people, Jewish people and Travellers were not required to sit at the back of the bus. In apartheid South Africa, these groups were allowed to vote. And at the height of slavery, there were no white-seeming people manacled on the slave ships.


Diane Abbott
 House of Commons, London SW1

That letter resulted in Abbott’s long supension from the Labour Party. I do think it’s interesting to look at what Abbott said in the context of what Pochin said which was:

It drives me mad when I see adverts full of black people, full of Asian people, full of anything other than white.

Which of the following six actors, cast for a TV commercial in a family setting of same colour actors would Pochin get mad about?

Aiden Turner (white Irish, Poldark), Andrew Garfield (white Jewish, Spiderman), John Connors (white Traveller, Cardboard Gangsters), James Norton (white redhead, Happy Valley) David Harewood (black, Homeland), Dev Patel (Asian, Best Exotic Marigold Hotel).

Because, if Pochin wouldn’t get mad about the first four, because they are white and only the last two, because they are black and Asian then she is exhibiting racism.

Well exactly - but that doesn’t seem to upset some people as much as a reform MP saying something about adverts.

Grooming gang survivor Ellie Reynolds spoke very eloquently on TV yesterday regarding Sarah Pochin’s remark.

She reminded the audience that she and thousands of other white, British girls were the victims of racism by those vile rapists.