The man formerly known as Prince can fall no further....

icanhandthemback, I may be wrong here but I suspect you’re viewing children as prepubescent girls. The girls Epstein provided were often initiated at 14 or younger. They were identified for their vulnerability, their lack of good enough parents, the likelihood that they’d been exposed to sexual abuse etc etc.
Maxwell, rather like Myra Hindley, was useful in appearing initially as a friendly older woman.

These girls were emotionally immature, groomed and sexually exploited. That’s the key issue

Between them Epstein and Maxwell developed a routine to procure these girls.

Epstein owned a house in Palm Beach - since demolished to get rid of the association with such misery.

Maxwell left the house during the afternoon and cruised in her 4x4 around the very poorest parts identifying likely candidates for grooming for sex and associated unpleasant activities. She acted as a “friend” to these girls and encouraged them with support and cash to carry out various sexual acts etc initially on Epstein and then as they got better at it to serve the men associated to Epstein, like Trump, Windsor, Clinton and many more.

These girls were flown around the world to service these men in Epstein’s plane known as the Lolita Express.

Has Clinton, Trump,been named as abusers ?

Iam64, I was just responding to Doodledog's post and was including all young girls in my thinking. My main point is that we have no knowledge of whether Andrew was at parties with lots of underaged girls.
As to the comment that everyone known to Epstein would have known that he was exploiting these vulnerable girls is just not necessarily true. The paedophile in our family went completely under the radar and when he was first arrested, I was sure there must have been a mistake. He was so lovely and charming; nobody had seen a thing out of place. It was only when he was caught at 80, we realised what he'd been doing for years. Everybody who knew him was absolutely flabbergasted.
Obviously there would have been plenty of people who did know what Epstein was up to but they are obviously people who had a different agenda from upstanding friends who might not have known.

Anniebach

Has Clinton, Trump,been named as abusers ?

Clinton and Trump have abused their positions of power with their using adult women for their own gratification.

There is no evidence of them being paedophiles.

icanhandthemback

*Iam64*, I was just responding to Doodledog's post and was including all young girls in my thinking. My main point is that we have no knowledge of whether Andrew was at parties with lots of underaged girls.
As to the comment that everyone known to Epstein would have known that he was exploiting these vulnerable girls is just not necessarily true. The paedophile in our family went completely under the radar and when he was first arrested, I was sure there must have been a mistake. He was so lovely and charming; nobody had seen a thing out of place. It was only when he was caught at 80, we realised what he'd been doing for years. Everybody who knew him was absolutely flabbergasted.
Obviously there would have been plenty of people who did know what Epstein was up to but they are obviously people who had a different agenda from upstanding friends who might not have known.

The whole issue is that VG was bought off- if he was innocent then why?

Quote keepingquiet Thu 06-Nov-25 09:09:07
Anniebach
Has Clinton, Trump,been named as abusers ?
Clinton and Trump have abused their positions of power with their using adult women for their own gratification.

There is no evidence of them being paedophiles.

I spoke of abusers, women in affairs with any man of wealth or position have been abused !

Iam64

icanhandthemback, I may be wrong here but I suspect you’re viewing children as prepubescent girls. The girls Epstein provided were often initiated at 14 or younger. They were identified for their vulnerability, their lack of good enough parents, the likelihood that they’d been exposed to sexual abuse etc etc.
Maxwell, rather like Myra Hindley, was useful in appearing initially as a friendly older woman.

These girls were emotionally immature, groomed and sexually exploited. That’s the key issue

Thank you Iam for posting this clarification - but I'm baffled as to why it constantly has to be repeated.

There seems to be a common misunderstanding that this whole sorry tale is about men having sex with "under age" girls. Apart from the fact that it depends where in the world the acts took place as the age of consent varies geographically - THIS IS NOT THE ISSUE!

Sexual abuse is no respecter of age, it doesn't matter if the victim is 12 or 62.

And they were not prostitutes - even those insisting that this was the case, there are sexual offences relating to prostitution and culpability is key.

These girls were emotionally immature, groomed and sexually exploited - exactly.

icanhandthemback

Doodledog

I repeat (although I have said it often on these threads) that I am not accusing Andrew of anything. What I am saying is that there is increasing evidence that on Epstein's island, and on his 'Lolita' plane, there were very young girls - children.

If I went to a party and saw children being put in rooms with men I would have called the police. If I got to a private island and saw children there, I would ask questions of my hosts.

If I got on a plane to an 'adult' party and was in the company of children I would be more than uneasy.

Are my feelings out of step with anyone on this thread who is prepared to defend Andrew, or anyone else at these parties/at the mansion when the girls were there/on the plane when children were being transported?

Can anyone put up a defence?

Do we actually know if Andrew was at parties where there were children? Did he travel on the 'Lolita' plane with children?
If I went to an adults party and there were children there without their parents, I'd be highly suspicious and raising my concerns too and certainly if they were being put into rooms with men. However, nothing I have read has suggested that Andrew saw these things. Without the files being released we can only speculate and that is indefensible.

I agree with you icanhandthemback
There isn’t any evidence about Andrew.It’s mainly that he’s brought the RF into disrepute by attending parties given by Epstein.

And seems when Epstein and Maxwell stayed at royal lodge it’s now reported as fact by unnamed source, they were condoms and oils in the bathrooms

Anniebach

Quote keepingquiet Thu 06-Nov-25 09:09:07
Anniebach
Has Clinton, Trump,been named as abusers ?
Clinton and Trump have abused their positions of power with their using adult women for their own gratification.

There is no evidence of them being paedophiles.

I spoke of abusers, women in affairs with any man of wealth or position have been abused !

Why do you think the whole story is being suppressed in the USA Anniebach? I’d say it’s because bigger fish than Andrew are in it up to their necks, and we haven’t heard the half of it yet.

Quote Casdon Thu 06-Nov-25 11:25:18
Anniebach
Quote keepingquiet Thu 06-Nov-25 09:09:07
Anniebach
Has Clinton, Trump,been named as abusers ?
Clinton and Trump have abused their positions of power with their using adult women for their own gratification.

There is no evidence of them being paedophiles.

I spoke of abusers, women in affairs with any man of wealth or position have been abused !

Why do you think the whole story is being suppressed in the USA Anniebach? I’d say it’s because bigger fish than Andrew are in it up to their necks, and we haven’t heard the half of it yet.

What has affairs the two men were involved with to do with abuse ? Monica L was in her 20’s

Yes, it was the lie, about breaking off the friendship, that 'did for them' this time.
Not his 'contact' with VG. That had already been addressed and 'dealt with'.
It was the two emails, new to us, from after his Interview, when he claimed he had 'broken up' with Epstein.
And SFs email, apologising to Epstein for criticising him.
Those recently leaked emails have resurrected the whole affair.

Yes, their emails, these cannot be denied

Who is leaking the emails? Andrew Lownie suggests it is Ghislaine Maxwell.

I thought the emails are from Epstein’s files ?

Bloomberg News have 18,000 emails from Epstein's email account and will not disclosed their source.
Andrew Lownie suggested in the Australian 60 Minutes programme that Ghislaine Maxwell has leaked emails, in particular the ones incriminating Andrew, whether she leaked them to Bloomberg or elsewhere I've no idea.
I'm sure someone can enlighten us, I'm not really that interested in the thread, there is a vast amount of misinformation on it.

Thank you, yes so many ‘sources close to ‘ ‘. and royal experts ‘

Do her brothers have copies of the files?
Could be them.

Maremia

Do her brothers have copies of the files?
Could be them.

It's the source of the leaks that isn't known. Bloomberg is known to have thousands of emails but won't say how they got them. If the brothers have them where did they get them? I don't know why Lownie thinks Maxwell but it's a reasonable assumption she'd have access to Epstein's email account. The other question is why is whoever leaking them doing so?

Anyone want to bet whether he will comply with the democrats request?

Can't remember where I read this, but suggestion was she got copies of some of the data to her brothers, for back up.
It's what you would do, isn't it?
She had plenty of time to sort this.

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202511/medium-2nyc8h-1000019168.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202511/medium-ct9zm-1000019169.png

If AMW had sex with VG in NYC while she was being trafficked, he did break the law. And it looks like Congress has invited him to talk about it.

Yes - my bet is won’t comply.

These girls were emotionally immature, groomed and sexually exploited

Yes, it turns out they were but 1. Andrew has denied sleeping with her and hasn't been tried; and 2. As he didn't procure the VG, would he have been aware of her backstory?

Try him in a court of law and find him guilty and I will personally string him up if you like. If he admits he slept with her and knew she was procured, I'm more than happy to see him face dire consequences. My point is and always has been that so far, this is trial by media and GN.

I want to see all the files released with the alleged offenders facing trial but I fear it won't because Trump wants it forgotten about.