Palestine for the Palestinian peoples, Israel for the Israeli peoples

Some people here will understand me laughing at hopes expressed that that region could live in peace. Or a safe haven if you don't mind the missiles. Wowzers!

By the time I "pop my clogs" in years to come I will be enormously surprised if the conflict isn't still going on. Brings a whole new take on things and I'll be off to google the "100 years war" in a minute to see how that conflict lasted so long a few centuries back/why it started/etc - as this conflict in the region has been going on since before I turned up on the scene as a pregnancy and I would definitely (unfortunately) lay odds on it still in full swing come 2035 (my expected lifespan end).

I reckon that - even after that - I'll still be doing the "welcoming committee" voluntary work I have in mind for some years after my lifespan is over here. I couldnt hazard a guess just how long I think this conflict is going to go on for - with variations in target country/countries I'd hazard a guess it will be going on for at least another 20 years and I think it will outlast the 100 years war I'm afraid.

I still feel peeved that my much looked forward to trip to Israel was cancelled as they were at war with the Lebanon.1982.
As you can tell I don't hold on to disappointments 🙁

Oreo

AGAA4

Do you really think it's a safe haven Oreo? They are surrounded by hostile countries and there are frequent problems with surrounding countries.

Yes, Jews do consider Israel as a safe haven as the vast majority who live there are Jewish and most importantly the government of their country are Jewish.The safety that it accords them are worth the missiles coming from surrounding countries.

It should be.

If only all around that region could live in peace.

AGAA4

Do you really think it's a safe haven Oreo? They are surrounded by hostile countries and there are frequent problems with surrounding countries.

Yes, Jews do consider Israel as a safe haven as the vast majority who live there are Jewish and most importantly the government of their country are Jewish.The safety that it accords them are worth the missiles coming from surrounding countries.

Children are dying from hypothermia. Due to dirty water jaundice, respiratory diseases, diarrhea and flu are spreading.

Some of the tents have been flooded as they are made of flimsy materials.
People are burning cardboard and plastic for a little warmth but can give off toxic fumes.
How can people be treated like this? The situation is desperate.

Btw the death rate now stands at 69,000

We should also consider that most of these poor people are also weak and malnourished. Before long flu and pneumonia will take a hold and the death rates will rise yet again

Winters in that neck of the woods can be blustery, wet, and cold, flimsy tents will not withstand the worst of it and those trying to shelter probs don’t have adequate clothing due to leaving most of their possessions behind. Babies, the sick, and the elderly will not fare well 😢

I thought that the peace plan was going to s…t miracles. What has happened?

Oh dear. Life must be sheer misery. 😥

We think of that area as warm but the winters can be cold, wet and miserable.

Misery being heaped on misery as the rain floods the tatty little tents and children have inadequate clothing for the winter weather.

trying to live on someone else's land

That is your opinion.

Must say it would be very far from my idea of a safe haven either = safe? trying to live on someone else's land and on the lookout in case that someone else fights back at you for what you did?!!!! Knowing that most of the world can now see you as a pariah state. Can't say I'd want to have to explain to everyone I met why I landed up living there and explain to others that I personally didn't go along with everything, had refused to be hauled into the IDF, and what I was doing to help the Palestinians and putting myself at risk in the process.

Add with the begging bowl constantly held out in the direction of America to help you fund it all. No wonder they want Gaza too - hasnt it got a load of oil off the coast there? or is my memory wrong on that one...

Not my definition for sure of a safe haven - I'd rather go and live on an American desert area personally - far safer.

Yes, AGAA4 possibly not the best choice. Probably very little 'consultation'.
But here we are. And there they are.

Yes Oreo, I agree with 'getting it right'.
This has to be the time for a re-set, one that suits the myriad citizens of the area.

Do you really think it's a safe haven Oreo? They are surrounded by hostile countries and there are frequent problems with surrounding countries.

If the Americans thought it was such a great idea - then the question does arise why they didn't tell them to come to America instead - where it would appear as if there is plenty of "empty" land (though we all know what the start-out of America was - especially if it was our land before they all started heading over in the 17th century).

They could have picked a relatively empty section of America - but instead they chose someone else's land.

Now that should be a bit of interesting reading to see why the Americans put their oar in/but didn't help out basically - someone somewhere probably wrote a book about why they thought it was okay to give away the Palestinians land like that....and I'd be interested if there are any details anywhere as to why that happened....

The British allowed a huge influx of Jews into Palestine so it could be said that the problem was already there before Israel was created.
There was never going to be peace for long between Jews and Arabs and fighting broke out from the start.

It wasn’t only the British that thought setting up Israel was a good thing for Jews to have their own homeland after the holocaust.
It’s provided a safe haven there for so many.It was done for the very best of reasons.

AGAA4

The British getting involved in Palestine caused the state of Israel to come into being. That has been a problem from the start.
Perhaps the British should not get involved in other countries.

Not quite.

The British were against the formation State of Israel, it was pushed by the US and UN and recognised by the USA and USSR.

Oreo

Sometimes getting involved is the right thing to do and sometimes it’s really not.The important thing is getting it right.

I don't think the British in this case did the Jewish or Arab people any favours. There has been hostility on both sides.
The British left Palestine telling the people there to "play nicely".
This was never going to happen and there have been tragic events since.

Sometimes getting involved is the right thing to do and sometimes it’s really not.The important thing is getting it right.

The British getting involved in Palestine caused the state of Israel to come into being. That has been a problem from the start.
Perhaps the British should not get involved in other countries.

Sad but true David49

CariadAgain

I'd heard of it alright - back when my father told me he'd landed up witnessing it back in the 1940s in Palestine - and thoroughly disapproved of it.

So I knew the general gist - but it is only recently I've found out the name that it was given, when/why it all originated, what the eventual plan is (ie "Greater Israel"). The one thing I'm not clear on yet is why Netanyahu et al have such a hold on the American government and that hold obviously started before Trump came to power and so it's not just down to him.

A lot of Americans seem to go and live in Palestine - judging by how many American accents/American looks etc there are amongst them and it would be useful to see the back story as to why this is so and Americans have been emigrating there for some years now.

So - would be useful if anyone can provide any links as to just why the Americans are so involved in this (over and above the fact that other canal proposed for there is something that they seem to want as far as I can make out).

Somewhere or other will be a decent book or two on just why the Americans seem to get so involved in the Middle East as a whole - so it would be useful to have any links anyone has to these books.

Some said it was oil when Saddam invaded Kuwait, then WMD, before that bombing Libya and removing Gadaffi who sponsored terrorism. Removing the despotic dictators created a vacuum fill by terrorist groups sponsored by Iran. At the same time aid to Egypt and Jordan enabling them to control internal terrorism and leave Israel alone.

It has been a complex mess, democracy doesn’t work with Arabs it would have been better to do nothing, the same with Afghanistan the situation is worse than before, getting rid of Bin Laden was done, it should have been left at that.

With hindsight the UK shouldn’t have got involved, today we are getting the pain with illegal migrants that cannot be returned, that’s our payback for interfering.