Was the Britain we have today worth all the sacrifices made in WW2?

Jaberwok

I like the service of Remembrance and the poppies. It makes me realise that, even though at times I query it, my father's death was not in vain. Nazi Germany was an evil almost beyond comprehension and were it not for those brave men and women, we would have lived, and perhaps still be living, in a far worse world than we now are. Hitler and his regime had to be eliminated whatever the cost, so no WW2 and all its horrors was not pointless.

It wasn't just Hitler who lost WW2 - it was a whole ideology. Sadly, some of the comments even on this thread show that the ideology is raising its ugly head again. Hopefully, the world doesn't need to go to war to defeat it this time.

25Avalon

I think our generation certainly had a good life and opportunities thanks to his sacrifice. Things have changed however as nothing stays still and it remains to be seen how the world progresses from here.

There's more than one "generation" on GN. Sometimes GNers talk about the past as though it's a foreign land to me.

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

What's that got to do with those who died in past wars?

Surely you don't mean that the reason the UK isn't worth it is because there are more Muslims here! Surely not!

Caleo
If your on GN I’m sure most members know how to cont tack local and national politicians.

I think our generation certainly had a good life and opportunities thanks to his sacrifice. Things have changed however as nothing stays still and it remains to be seen how the world progresses from here.

There is a theory, with some evidence to support it, that if Hitler and the Axis powers had won WWII the Duke of Windsor would have come out of exile and replaced George VI as a puppet monarch of the UK.

Whether this would have actually happened and what it would have meant in practice, we shall never know.

Yes, worth the sacrifices.

Dickens

GrannyGravy13
Tell that to the Taliban who have eliminated females from society in the name of Islam

I think it is their interpretation of Islam, which they have hijacked to suit their own male-dominated society - those types of men who seek power by force or violence because of their own inadequacies.

And it isn't limited to Islam, though fortunately in the West, there are laws which prevent the subjugation of women. But patriarchy is rearing its head in the USA.

And you think its not going to creep and creep in the UK?

Well, fighting against the far right to protect our minorities like those of Jewish faith, blacks, gypsies, disabled, mentally impaired, political prisoners etc from the gas ovens seems a fight worth having imo.

What we have done to the country since has nothing to do with the WW2 except our parents survived to bring us into the world, and you could argue that we have made a real pigs ear of it.

AmberGran

We didn't end up in gas chambers or slaves to the Nazis.

To me that seems a lot.

We also liberated many other countries.

However, there are those who only think about themselves. On this forum the years from 1945 to the early 1970s will have influenced their view of the world. Few born then had to fight in later life. Many were not even born until after the war ended. The important first knowledge of the country was built on destruction and shortages being the norm - which their parents lived with. They then grew up with growth an amazing change - the Boomers.

The problem is that it was never going to continue but there are many boomers who feel it is their right that it continues for them.

GrannyGravy13
Tell that to the Taliban who have eliminated females from society in the name of Islam

I think it is their interpretation of Islam, which they have hijacked to suit their own male-dominated society - those types of men who seek power by force or violence because of their own inadequacies.

And it isn't limited to Islam, though fortunately in the West, there are laws which prevent the subjugation of women. But patriarchy is rearing its head in the USA.

I heard the veteran saying that and I agreed with him. It seems that all the advantages the followed the Second World War are being thrown away or maligned.
People forget that WW2 exposed the inequality of different lives; National Service exposed the poverty in which some people lived and led to the Coalition Government producing the Beveridge Report, 1942, which brought forward huge changes .
Food rationing resulted in much more equal distribution of food and more balanced diets. The Education Act 1944 provided equality of opportunity and the development of secondary and free tertiary education; and the National Health Service (1948)provided free health care for all.
Best of all, it gave women equal opportunity in the workplace, although initially they had to surrender their jobs when the men returned home. But the seed was planted.

Now so much of this is taken for granted, or undervalued.
And comparing Tommy Robinson and Nigel Farage with Hitler is crass,

I like the service of Remembrance and the poppies. It makes me realise that, even though at times I query it, my father's death was not in vain. Nazi Germany was an evil almost beyond comprehension and were it not for those brave men and women, we would have lived, and perhaps still be living, in a far worse world than we now are. Hitler and his regime had to be eliminated whatever the cost, so no WW2 and all its horrors was not pointless.

Caleo

“O you who believe! Let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them.” (Qur’an 49:11)

The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ emphasized good manners, patience, and avoiding public humiliation.

Shaming someone publicly over clothing is more a reflection of cultural attitudes or personal judgment, not true Islamic ethics. Islam also teaches that accountability is ultimately between a person and God, and it’s not for individuals to enforce it with aggression or humiliation.

I suggest you remind the Moslem men who routinely beat their women for minor offences.

Who offer up their sister to be raped by the brother of a female raped by a member of their family, their so called justice

Tell that to the Taliban who have eliminated females from society in the name of Islam…

Caleo

“O you who believe! Let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them.” (Qur’an 49:11)

The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ emphasized good manners, patience, and avoiding public humiliation.

Shaming someone publicly over clothing is more a reflection of cultural attitudes or personal judgment, not true Islamic ethics. Islam also teaches that accountability is ultimately between a person and God, and it’s not for individuals to enforce it with aggression or humiliation.

Try telling some of these rabble rousing imams that. They stir unrest from their pulpits.

Btw I agree with what you say Caleo.

I loved seeing the local primary school children, scouts guides etc in uniform laying wreaths in our village this morning.

During the 2 minute silence unfortunately a youth came rolling into the crowd on his noisy skateboard and then pushed his way through the crowd.

So sad that he has reached the age of approximately 18 and not learnt any manners or respect and to think that 80+ years ago he would have been enlisted.

I think the many brave men and women who sacrificed so much will be turning in their graves.

I will always pay my respects, our children and now grandchildren too, I will be forever grateful.

How sad that this gentleman feels this way. Many things are wrong here but without the sacrifices made they would certainly be far worse.

Twinnytwin wrote:

"Silent pity, as the years pass, will be replaced by forgetfulness."

That is true . I retract what I said. We do need public expression of what must be remembered.

If Germany Hitler and Mussolini had won, Europe would be a fascist continent .

If we had been invaded, Britain would be very different today.

We'd still be ruled by foreign fascists who had sucked dry/ diverted all our global assets (last of the empire, the commonwealth) . So no influx of Commonwelath labour to rebuild Britain. No NHS. Of course we'd have no RAF, Navy or Army.

When King George VI died, Hitler would quite likely crown his old friends Duke of Windsor and Wallis .

Well Caleo, I disagree with you regarding the ceremonies of remembrance. They mark our respect for those who gave their lives to protect their families and countries, not just in past wars, but also conflicts since. It gives folk an opportunity to remember them and also to reflect about others impacted by war. My Mother was evacuated from Coventry in her early teens to escape the bombing, but many of our relatives were killed during the war.
Silent pity, as the years pass, will be replaced by forgetfulness.

“O you who believe! Let not a people ridicule [another] people; perhaps they may be better than them.” (Qur’an 49:11)

The Prophet Muhammad ﷺ emphasized good manners, patience, and avoiding public humiliation.

Shaming someone publicly over clothing is more a reflection of cultural attitudes or personal judgment, not true Islamic ethics. Islam also teaches that accountability is ultimately between a person and God, and it’s not for individuals to enforce it with aggression or humiliation.

PS what those men did was unIslamic.

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

Should have reported those rude men to their mosque authority.

Maremia

Of course it is about everyday life as well.
We use our purchase power every day.
We normally interact in our community.
Don't like the way things are happening locally, then find a 'ginger' group to help make improvements.
You don't have to go out and march
If you are contributing to this Thread, then you are just as able to contact local and national politicians.
And no, they won't do your bidding first time.
But, hey, we now have the time to persist

As a respected member of Gransnet, please inform the members how to contact local and national politicians.

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.