Was the Britain we have today worth all the sacrifices made in WW2?

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Life in Britain is still very unfair with a big divide between those who have and those who don't, the wealthy/comfortably off and the poor. There are also so many people who aren't prepared to work for their living and are allowed to claim benefits which the rest of us are effectively paying. This means that there is less available to pay those who genuinely cannot work or who are retired.
Sadly there is also a big divide between north and south, with most affluent areas being in the south.

Can you seriously remember a time when it wan't like that?

IOMGran

David49

“The UK got massive aid via the Marshall plan too, we spaffed it up against the wall Canute like trying to hold onto our Empire. Germany and Japan used it to invest in their industry and enjoyed considerable returns. It was our own donkey leaders who were responsible.”

Yes and we have done pretty much the same with North Sea Oil

Indeed. This is the sort of backwardness that has always annoyed me about my country. I remember years ago being jealous that Germany had Chancellor Kohl and we had our useless politicians.

Er? It wasn't Kohl who shaped post-war Germany. Go back to your history books and look up Adenauer, Brandt, Schmidt and Hans-Dietrich Genscher .

Read George Orwell's "The Lion and the Unicorn". It was written in 1941, as England was being bombed. Orwell captured what kind of country it was - he had no idea who would win the war, but strangely the kind of country he described (and criticised) survived long after the war ended.

In 1993, John Major alluded to the essay in a speech on Europe by stating, "Fifty years from now Britain will still be the country of long shadows on county grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and – as George Orwell said – 'old maids bicycling to Holy Communion through the morning mist'."

Major was being complimentary, whereas Orwell was being critical. He saw a country which couldn't change.

Luckygirl3

Why does everyone diss the UK? We don't know how lucky we are ...

It’s become a hobby, like talking about the weather🤷‍♀️

Life in Britain is still very unfair with a big divide between those who have and those who don't, the wealthy/comfortably off and the poor. There are also so many people who aren't prepared to work for their living and are allowed to claim benefits which the rest of us are effectively paying. This means that there is less available to pay those who genuinely cannot work or who are retired.
Sadly there is also a big divide between north and south, with most affluent areas being in the south.

BlueBelle

I agree with this elderly soldier The rise of the FarRight of the Yaxley Lennon and Farage types are exactly what we lost so many lives fighting against
My poor Dad would say exactly what that old solder said

Ambergran that’s exactly where we are heading right now sleep walking into the exact same type of beliefs instead of swaztikas we have relinquished our national flag to these hate machines.

I completely agree.

Our veterans fought for freedom from this sort of regime and freedom for all, not just an elite few.

Why does everyone diss the UK? We don't know how lucky we are

Everyone doesn't but some do as it suits their purpose. Some people do not travel and have no idea how it is elsewhere.

Luckygirl3

Why does everyone diss the UK? We don't know how lucky we are ...

Because certain people have a vested interest in encouraging others to think the country is "broken" - so they can some along on their white chargers (wrapped in Union flags) and fix it.

Why does everyone diss the UK? We don't know how lucky we are ...

David49

“The UK got massive aid via the Marshall plan too, we spaffed it up against the wall Canute like trying to hold onto our Empire. Germany and Japan used it to invest in their industry and enjoyed considerable returns. It was our own donkey leaders who were responsible.”

Yes and we have done pretty much the same with North Sea Oil

Indeed. This is the sort of backwardness that has always annoyed me about my country. I remember years ago being jealous that Germany had Chancellor Kohl and we had our useless politicians.

Yes and we have done pretty much the same with North Sea Oil

By privatising our utilities and public transport and allowing them to be run for shareholders profits has led them to be expensive and lacking investment for improvement to be made.

“The UK got massive aid via the Marshall plan too, we spaffed it up against the wall Canute like trying to hold onto our Empire. Germany and Japan used it to invest in their industry and enjoyed considerable returns. It was our own donkey leaders who were responsible.”

Yes and we have done pretty much the same with North Sea Oil

There is more and longer access to education now for everybody than before the war. It's ironic how I'll educated people are to swallow hook line and sinker people like Yaxley Lennon and Farage. Can they not see the similarity to Trump and his modus operandi?
Farage is out for himself. He supported Trump in his election and expressly said he wanted to work with him - but Musk spooked that for him. His foolish supporters are bleating about him not laying a wreath at the Cenotaph on Remembrance Sunday (he has no right to do so), but nothing was stopping him joining the crowds watching. Funny how he did not turn up for the wreath laying in his own constituency! Do people really think he cares?

StoneofDestiny

Why do people who are unfamiliar with the Qur'an or Bible rely on isolated quotes from random people on social media?

There are some horrendous things in religious texts and very often why scholars need to interpret them. The Old Testament makes disturbing reading which is often the text fundamentalists quote from to justify their extreme views. They don't bother to consider the New Testament.

Because they want to push their agenda. personally I would burn the Old Testament. The Quran is full of inconsistencies too. The Cleric classes love a bit of ambiguity, allows them to tailor their offering to people of all mindsets.

Why do people who are unfamiliar with the Qur'an or Bible rely on isolated quotes from random people on social media?

There are some horrendous things in religious texts and very often why scholars need to interpret them. The Old Testament makes disturbing reading which is often the text fundamentalists quote from to justify their extreme views. They don't bother to consider the New Testament.

TerriBull

"Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed, it was tough for us ten times worse for them, they rebuilt their industry quickly and out-class ours"

In Germany's case they got massive aid via the Marshall Plan from grants and loans paid back under favourable conditions which were fully paid off by 1960. Meanwhile our loans were only paid off when Gordon Brown was PM. Also, having decimated many countries, whose wealth they also plundered during the war some of those countries migh argue that they were paid paltry reparations, if any, given the Versailles Treaty over punished them in the aftermath of WW1 and history told us what that lead to, so all in all they got off light in that respect. So whilst they certainly suffered in the immediate aftermath most of Europe was in ruins and hungry, particularly when the Red Army swept through Germany, by the mid 50s, just as we were coming out of rationing they were up and running, but they didn't do it entirely from their own efforts.

The UK got massive aid via the Marshall plan too, we spaffed it up against the wall Canute like trying to hold onto our Empire. Germany and Japan used it to invest in their industry and enjoyed considerable returns. It was our own donkey leaders who were responsible.

FriedGreenTomatoes2

^Who offer up their sister to be raped by the brother of a female raped by a member of their family, their so called justice^

Oh GG13 this truly shocked me.
I didn’t know Islam allowed this form of ‘justice’.

‘An eye for an eye” writ large indeed.

Do you ever fact check anything? Anything like this is some perverted cultural norms and not to do with Islam. They might try to cloak it in the religion but they are wrong. I recently went to Morocco, a very Islamic country, flew from Manchester so most of the passengers were Bradford Muslims. They were fine, no hassle at all. Morocco was fine, some women wore headscarves, many didn't, no weird looks at them. People were polite and pleasant on the whole. Nothing like the Taliban. It's like judging Christianity by the Puritans or the nutty US Ebangelicals.

The act of offering up a sister to be raped by the brother of a female who was raped by a family member is not an Islamic instruction or teaching. Islam strongly condemns all forms of sexual violence, including rape, within and outside the family, and considers it a grave sin and crime.

Islamic Position on Rape and Sexual Violence
Rape is strictly prohibited in Islam and is regarded as a serious crime deserving severe punishment. The offender, even if a family member, faces harsh legal consequences including death penalty in some interpretations, because sexual violence violates the dignity and honor of the victim and family alike.

Islam does not tolerate retaliatory sexual violence or revenge by harming innocent relatives in this manner. Instead, Islamic law emphasizes the protection of all individuals’ dignity and rights, including women and family members.

Cases of sexual abuse, including within families, are subject to stringent prosecution and strict legal punishments. Consent does not negate the crime of sexual abuse under Islamic law.

Rejecting Retaliatory Sexual Violence
There is no foundation in Islamic teachings or jurisprudence for “exchanging” or offering someone as a victim of sexual violence in retaliation for the rape of another. Such an act contradicts Islamic principles of justice, mercy, and the protection of human dignity.

Islamic sources and scholars uniformly condemn sexual aggression and instruct believers to protect and defend family members, especially women, from harm.

Therefore, the scenario described is not supported or authorized by Islamic teachings or Sharia law. Rather, Islam mandates the safeguarding of victims and the administration of justice against perpetrators without causing harm or injustice to others in response.

IOMGran

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

I'll take that for 'things that never happened'. It's always a friend of a friend.

Take it however you want to.

Dottydots

When I heard what the old gentleman said I would have loved to have given him a cuddle. I agree with him, but life, though, goes on, and hopefully it won't get any worse than it is now..

Sadly, many people have felt "it can't get any worse" for a long time now but it does & that is why there are so many disillusioned people. Politicians of all the major parties have failed to take into account ordinary citizens interests & played right into the hands of Farage & Yaxley-Lennon.

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

I'll take that for 'things that never happened'. It's always a friend of a friend.

At the time it was definitely worth it, my father at 19 years of age fought in WW2, I wouldn't be here if he hadn't helped to keep our country free. Sadly many successive governments are screwing everything up for us. Pensioners, and people who have worked hard all their lives and paid their taxes, never been in trouble taking the brunt of it. I totally agree with this Hero Gentleman.

Teazel2

That is a very interesting post and one that I was considering starting. I absolutely and fully agree with him. This country has turned into a mess. What was all the sacrifice for?

The alternative would have ben living in a Nazi Europe, as most Reform types voted for Brexit, it's hard to reconcile that with being controlled by a Fascist Germany! I really get fed up with this continual Eyeore moaning about the UK. We have a much better standard of living than when I was a child. We have a longer life expectancy too. People don't have to go down the mines, our air is clean, our kids are protected from infections with vaccines. Food and energy is much more affordable than when I was a child. The TV is more fun, I am enjoying my life thanks. Women have career opportunities, we have rights, we're not expected to be Aryan breeding machines like Hitler wanted us to be. Fellow grans, please get a sense of perspective.

What I do find odd is that people don't respect their environment with litter and graffiti

I recall graffiti being done by youth when I was growing up - now it's adults thinking their graffiti shows pride and patriotism! Litter has increased because we have got a 'takeaway food' 'culture'. I only recall fish and chip shops growing up and those were very often taken home.

First I must say I very agree with Stoneof destiny, you talk a lot of sense. Secondly yes it was worth it, look at what you actually have now and be grateful, NHS, yes moan about it if you must but it works and saves lives. Decent working conditions and mostly decent housing. Us women also have it far easier than our mothers did. We are still fighting a different war, a war against the far right trying to take us back to pre war conditions. We are a multi national country with people from all walks of life working together. Let us be be grateful for what we have

It was actually the Russians who beat the main German army, leaving the UK and allies to mop up the less well trained and equipped army in the west of Europe.
Russia and China were fighting the same countries as we were, and lost : Russia, around 24,500,000
China: around 24,000,000
USA : around 418,000
UK: around 450,700

There’s a lot lot of people to remember, but our two best allies are decreed to be enemies now. That’s wrong.

But the old veteran is right… they fought Fascism, which is just the what the EU is becoming… and so are we as the far right are rising again.

Nano14

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

What exactly does this have to do with the veteran's words, or indeed any other comment on this thread? Comments like yours always seem to involve a friend of a friend, just hearsay!
Did you know that 5.5 million Muslims fought for us in ww2, and that 1.5 million of them died?
Did you know that they have their own remembrance services for the dead of the world wars?
A Muslim carer, who works in our extra care facility, was very upset yesterday, as she was unable to attend, as she was working, caring, for little money, for our residents.

Maybe you should try living in .afghanistan for a couple of years. It would be very interesting to hear your views and experiences if you did.