Was the Britain we have today worth all the sacrifices made in WW2?

And I do agree with you, kjmpde, about the litter and pollution.

As several people have said, it's easy to sympathise with this veteran's frustration - but I haven't heard a flood of other veterans agreeing with him. They know that the brutalities of the Nazis, millions of innocent people murdered in concentration camps, free speech crushed, all the men of a village shot to punish one person stepping out of line, don't compare at all with our present difficulties. Having said that, our difficulties are certainly worrying and internationally the times are dark. A lot of little acts of kindness and tolerance and listening to each other needed to turn things carefully in a better direction!

I wonder what people expected after the war. We have the right to express our feelings without fear of prison( unless with the intention of harm). We have equal rights regardless of gender or race. Slavery is illegal.
What I do find odd is that people don't respect their environment with litter and graffiti.

Bibedybop

Well it was worth it for 70/75/80 years depending on when you think it has all gone to pot. Nothing stays the same , quick look at a history book will tell you that, unfortunately at the moment we seem to be entering a darker period after many years of (mostly) peace in the west.

Having studied modern world history this period is concerning. When people feel they aren’t being listened to, the vacuum becomes dangerous and extremism finds a way through. Whilst we are in-fighting and blaming each other the real malign actors are manipulating the agenda and the world order - Russia and China are on manoeuvres. Russia has a vested interest in the rise of uncontrolled immigration in the west. As Mussolini said ‘ divide, then conquer’

To me it seems very sad that a war veteran should feel this way, although I do understand why he does.

The appalling loss of life during both world wars gave at least the countries of part of Europe democracies and a chance of making a good future for themselves and their children.

Unfortunately, it seems, we cannot boast of having made a very good job of our work for a better future.

But surely mankind has learned something form the devastation of the 20th century?

I understand where this emotion and feeling came from but overall there are pockets of care, love and concern which are worth fighting for. I think many of the brave people who fought and lived through the wars were fighting for these pockets of family, neighbours and communities of which they were aware and came from. Back in the day there were things which went on, black-marketeering, rationing and all the issues we read about.

I understand exactly how he feels and it's so sad for having gone through what he did and losing many friends and having had his efforts appreciated for so many years only to end up exactly as we are now. I'm too young to know the sacrifices he made but the end point - today's Britain - is the same. It's so sad.

Hardly the noble, fair 'green and pleasant land'!

Was it ever? Recruitment in WW1 should hugely undernourished men too unfit to fight. Veterans from WW1 did not come back to 'homes fit for heroes' as they had been promised. Women didn't get the vote at age 21 until 1928. Britain in the 1930's were in 'depression'. We didn't get an NHS until 1948 and we were dependent on immigration to build up our country. Homosexuality wasn't decriminalised until the 1960's and capital punishment was only abolished for all crimes in 1998.

So the legal taking of life, the inequality between people, housing problems and discrimination was very much normal in post war so called 'green and pleasant' land.

What is sinister now is that 'people's concerns' are being used to point fingers at minorities. Very odd this 'movement' were pretty silent under 14 years and 5 prime ministers of the previous government and seem keen to blame the current government who have been in control for just over a year! Wonder why? They seem very reluctant to point fingers at the controlling elite - multimillionaires. Very odd so many Tory's are suddenly Reform members or voters - why did they not do when in power what they seem to think is suddenly doable?

Of course it was worth it - we live in a democracy as a result - nowhere near perfect but nothing like the dictatorship and Nazi regime that would be "British" if we hadn't fought.

Don't let the extreme right or left of the currently political leanings influence the fact that most British people are good, decent individuals who are grateful for being allowed to vote, speak English and live in realative peace as a result of others sacrifice

Those who say the 'far right' are trying to take over politics would, in my opinion, be well-advised to tone down their debate-destroying labelling, and reflect on what the ACTUAL Far Right did, in WW2. Most of what is called the 'far right' now are just people who want their voices heard above the liberal elitist doctrines of multi-culturalism and conformity to globalist agendas (which are actually pretty far left wing, when unpacked.). I wonder what the veteran would have said, if asked to explain? If I had fought in that dreadful war and watched my comrades die horrible deaths I would be appalled to see that grooming gangs are not properly investigated because of their skin colour, that children are being encouraged to think they can choose their gender and that mothers are being given carte blanche to murder their term babies. Hardly the noble, fair 'green and pleasant land'!

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed

Pop along to certain parts of the country on certain days and your find members of the 'Christian' Orange Order shouting outside Catholic Churches while services are going on - funerals, weddings, Mass.

Sadly bigotry crosses all faiths and non.

Why is it islamophobic to criticise the terrible things that are some Muslims are doing? Are we not allowed to express our horror at these inhuman acts?

Just ensure you criticise the terrible things done by Christian's, atheists and every other religious/non religious group going. Our prisons are full of every 'type' of belief.

It's horrendous to see the Far Right in the UK using the same tactics Hitler did to gain power. Demonising minorities and blaming them for all the ills of the country, chanting slogans and short phrases as if they were substitutes for policies and explanations, appealing to the unquestioning popular vote who see quick solutions to their problems, encouraging a gang mentality that leads to haranguing hordes thinking it's acceptable to riot, surround places of safety and deface our streets and now despoiling the national flag our ancestors fought under to defeat fascism. The St George and Union flags specifically are dangling bedraggled off people's shoulders and half mast on lampposts, put there by the most appalling people, the same people displaying racist and homophobic attitudes. They may as well have erected swastikas for the meaning now attached to them.

sundowngirl

Why is it islamophobic to criticise the terrible things that are some Muslims are doing? Are we not allowed to express our horror at these inhuman acts?

Because it's Islamic extremists who are doing wrong things. The critics, tend to not make this clear, but seem to be tarring all Muslims with same brush. This is what causes hate and Islamophobia.

Teazel2

I was talking to a friend who has another friend who was walking past a mosque when the Muslim men were waiting outside before going into pray. They hissed at her for being in their view inappropriately dressed.

She was brave enough to confront them and say that this is her country and if they dont like it they should go to live in a country which holds their values.

What exactly does this have to do with the veteran's words, or indeed any other comment on this thread? Comments like yours always seem to involve a friend of a friend, just hearsay!
Did you know that 5.5 million Muslims fought for us in ww2, and that 1.5 million of them died?
Did you know that they have their own remembrance services for the dead of the world wars?
A Muslim carer, who works in our extra care facility, was very upset yesterday, as she was unable to attend, as she was working, caring, for little money, for our residents.

Well it was worth it for 70/75/80 years depending on when you think it has all gone to pot. Nothing stays the same , quick look at a history book will tell you that, unfortunately at the moment we seem to be entering a darker period after many years of (mostly) peace in the west.

Old people often think the "olden days" were better. It's probably because the future belongs to younger people and modern life can seem scary. While respecting the retired service man who got upset I utterly disagree. Both my parents served- one in a military hospital treating burns casualties and the other as a medic in the desert - awful, unspeakable things seen and rarely spoken of by either. They fully supported a united Europe and didn't bring us up to hate or resent. Life is now very tough indeed for some but it was back then too. I won't disrespect their sacrifice and their brothers and sisters in arms by saying it wasn't worth it. They were glad to be alive and have enough to eat. Let's try and be grateful for what we have.

We know a lot more now than our parents did. Thé world was a terrible place then.

It is the lefty’s who are in power now and intent on destroying our country. They only seem to care about the lazy work shy benefit recipients.

I would hate to say that those who were injured or lost their lives and the pain their families endured was in vain but I do understand what that man was thinking. Today's country is a chaotic and often dangerous place with the far right becoming more and more dominant and no real leadershipor common sense from the govt.

AmberGran

I've seen him quoted all over the place. The thing is that what he said isn't specific at all, unless I've missed something (and that's very possible, of course).

Fascists are using him to justify their hatred and violence.

Others are using his words to describe the political mess, immigration, gender issues ... it just goes on.

I agree, nobody knows what he actually meant by his words. Yet, as you say, people are using his words to suit their own issues.

What was the alternative?...I personally believe it will get worse.God bless the men and women who thought it was worth it..Dont deny them what sacrifice they made.

flappergirl

To answer the original question. Yes, WW2 was worth it, otherwise we'd be a colony of Germany under Nazi rule. Or at least we would have been for some time. If you think it's bad now, just imagine that. Also, the war wasn't just about Britain. My father was one of the first of the allies to arrive at Bergen Belsen. Presumably without the defeat of the Nazis, many more Jews, Romani and others would have been gassed to death. Including in this country.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

MaizieD

David49

growstuff

David49

www.bbc.co.uk/history/british/modern/marshall_01.shtml

I really don't know what point you're making. That link proves that I was right. The UK received more Marshall Plan money than Germany.

Britain recieved large share yet did not modernize its industry, allowing our competitors to take over our market, the car industry, machine tools, steel, are good example's, nor did we invest more recently in new technology.

No, you're right, David. Britain spent the money trying to prop up its Empire.

Was this a sad failure on the part of the post war Labour government which achieved so much in other ways, or of the tory governments which succeeded it?

My original point was to point out that the UK received more Marshall Plan money than Germany or indeed any other country. I didn't mention anything about what they did with the money (I agree that it was wasted).

David49

growstuff

PS. The portrayal of a broken society is everything to do with the right.

So out of control drug use, increased knife crime, prisons overcrowded, uncontrolled migration is the fault of the right.

No out of control liberal attitudes is the cause.

None of those things describes a broken society. Please read what I actually wrote! The portrayal of society is very much the responsibility of the right. That's what right wing populists have historically always done.