The U.K. is prepared for nothing

maizie yes and all those benefits flow from the EU free market.

So freedom of movement for goods, people and capital.

Britain used to be a country led by high calibre MP’s . We are now led by overgrown schoolboys and student activists all pushing their own self serving agendas at the expense of what is best for the country. It’s so sad. Reform is our last hope of pulling the country back from the brink.

I think it was a terrible shame that the argument against membership was reduced to a simplistic one of how much we paid for our membership and how much we 'got back'.
It was a terrible shame, if that was all it was. But it’s a bit simplistic to claim that that was the only reason. In fact a lot of the reasons quoted above are a bit simplistic.

Mollygo

^I think it was a terrible shame that the argument against membership was reduced to a simplistic one of how much we paid for our membership and how much we 'got back'.^
It was a terrible shame, if that was all it was. But it’s a bit simplistic to claim that that was the only reason. In fact a lot of the reasons quoted above are a bit simplistic.

Yes, I agree.

There was a lot to consider and many discussions on all aspects took place.

The voting paper itself was too simplistic.
There should have been the option to remain in the Customs Union at least.

ArthurAskey

Britain used to be a country led by high calibre MP’s . We are now led by overgrown schoolboys and student activists all pushing their own self serving agendas at the expense of what is best for the country. It’s so sad. Reform is our last hope of pulling the country back from the brink.

Time was when an ordinary working person could think in terms of standing for Parliament and would be doing so for idealistic reasons. I'd forgotten my mother said one of my great-uncles was aiming in that direction - ie to be an MP.

Way back I wondered about it myself - but began to see what a "dirty game" it seems to be and that was the end of that...

"Overgrown schoolboys and student activists" about sums up a fair number of would-bes.

Bit like the BMA

Mollygo

WWM2
Whilst I agree that it is not likely to happen very soon, I do think that the U.K. would indeed be welcomed back into the EU, but not on the very favourable terms that we had prior to leaving.

Favourable terms. Hmm yes, circa 17 billion contribution we made to the EU, though we did get around 4billion back.
^In 2020 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £17.0 billion. The UK received £4.5 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK’s net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £12.6 billion.

On that basis, we could well be welcomed back, because I’m sure they’ve missed that money from us.
Indeed, people we met in EasternEurope e.g. Romania last year were full of praise for all the money they receive from the EU to rebuild their country.
They were sorry we’d left the EU.

NB I expect the EU would charge us extra for changes they’ve had to make e.g. for all the faffing about they’ve had to set up with passports at customs etc.

The consensus among economists and research institutions is that the UK was generally better off economically as a member of the EU. Studies estimate that Brexit has reduced UK GDP by around 2-6% compared to if it had remained in the EU, with the impact expected to grow over time.

Key points include:

Brexit introduced new trade barriers and regulatory hurdles with the EU, the UK's largest trading partner, reducing trade efficiency and raising costs for businesses.

UK exports to the EU have declined notably more than imports from the EU, increasing trade friction.

The UK's GDP per capita was estimated to be 8-10% higher under EU membership according to some studies.

Economic growth post-Brexit has been slower compared to projections made if the UK had stayed in the EU, partly due to reduced investment and labour shortages.

However, some argue Brexit offers potential long-term benefits from regulatory independence.

In summary, while some sectors and regions have adapted, the overall economic data shows the UK has experienced slower growth, trade disruption, and a reduction in GDP since leaving the EU, implying it was economically better off as a member

ArthurAskey

Britain used to be a country led by high calibre MP’s . We are now led by overgrown schoolboys and student activists all pushing their own self serving agendas at the expense of what is best for the country. It’s so sad. Reform is our last hope of pulling the country back from the brink.

And they've all got PPE degrees and no nous.

Probably unfair to label all MP’s in that way as there are many who do their best for their area and constituents, from all the political parties.

Oreo

Probably unfair to label all MP’s in that way as there are many who do their best for their area and constituents, from all the political parties.

I agree. 👍

Unfortunately the real lesson of Covid has been forgotten. How grateful we were for our neighbours friends and community. How much we appreciated being able to go out even just for a short time. How we recognised that having people living on the streets and unable to afford food and shelter was bad for our community as a whole. It’s just back to me me me again I feel. I don’t want to pay more tax but if Rachel needs the money to bring back a sense of community spirit and worth, and to support us all from cradle to grave´ bring it on. And, whilst we are at it, let’s actively reject the rise of billionaire led social media culture and value our traits and differences. Not a Christian…or anything…but do unto others has a lot going for it.

As we’ve moved on to Covid the immediate problem when it
started was lack of PPE, which is going to be needed for any contagious pandemic.

How much PPE is in store today????

David49

As we’ve moved on to Covid the immediate problem when it
started was lack of PPE, which is going to be needed for any contagious pandemic.

How much PPE is in store today????

Some items of PPE have use by dates as they deteriorate.

It really is a balancing act for stock control and knowing/guessing (in my day job) what your customers are going to be buying.

It can be an educated guess when you know the jobs involved.

For the NHS the requirement is enormous, the square meterage of storage needed vast. With up to date stock control and a plan for selling on before it reaches expiry date but early enough to be saleable.

It really isn’t as easy as just stockpiling 🤷‍♀️

The relevant people have made their fortunes from our money flogging us PPE by now. Hopefully they'd never get a second bite of our cherry so to say!

Couldnt swear to it - but think a lot of it got dumped...

I was only too glad that "going out" - for however long I had decided to only resulted in one row with someone in the police (ie because a policewoman was picking on a man sitting peaceably there on his own waiting his turn feet away from the shop he wanted to go in - ie a food shop). She left him alone and then tried harassing me - unsuccessfully - as I pretended she wasnt taking a photo of me and setting off a siren noise deliberately at me and put nose up in air and walked past her. I asked a woman in her garden both on my way out and when I came back again whether I'd been right to think she was harassing me/what did it look like to her? and got told I had been correct...that policewoman was indeed doing so.

I was glad of my new friends I made - quite a few of them. One had to make friends where you could if some of your old ones had decided to drop you for having a different viewpoint - so cue for one of my new friends (still on the scene) is someone I started chatting to in the street and it went on from there and two 1 hour chats later = still a friend now.

I was glad of the fact that the area I live in now has as a plus point that it's pretty "chatty". I can only imagine what it was like to be a person living on their own and not so much as a pet cat if they lived in a "cold" area.

The biggest problem re Brexit is the same as it was at the time. Too few of those pro remain, got off their bottoms and voted. Over a million of them, including those who are now complaining about Brexit sat at home, either complacent that their side would win or unwilling to make the effort to vote.
The result might not have been what I voted for, but I have more respect for anyone who voted leave and wish they hadn’t, than for those who didn’t bother.
If there was another referendum, do you think the CBBs would change their attitude and actually vote?

David49

As we’ve moved on to Covid the immediate problem when it
started was lack of PPE, which is going to be needed for any contagious pandemic.

How much PPE is in store today????

I would imagine the same amount as in 2020. Also masks became a political issue and you'd have a cohort of refusers. I keep my own supply of FFP3 masks now, I will look after my family using my own resources.

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...

The whole idea of "maybe it will happen again - ie Covid and Lockdown" feels like ill-wishing to me. I'd rather stand up firmly and go "Nope - never again". I think it's 5 "big plague" type illnesses there'd been so far before then for someone in my agegroup and I hadn't even heard of them at the time they happened. Nothing changed whatsoever for them - and the only difference was "This time we have the Internet - those 5 times we didn't". There was no other difference I could see...

There was so much that was illogical (ie worse Lockdown in Wales than England - so a couple of feet across a line on a map made a difference - apparently!). Then there was (former) friend I'd invited round for Boxing Day lunch with me - as she'd told me she was going to see her "best friend and husband" for Christmas lunch under the "bubble arrangements". Cue for Dripford decided to say "Oh no - we won't let people off the hook after all for Boxing Day. Restrictions again then" and former friend had to have it pointed out to her that only living a couple of hundred feet from each other and it would be an empty road she'd be walking to get to my house and Boxing Day was only a few hours of a difference from Christmas Day and I live on my own - whereas best friend had a husband. She did come round - but I don't know why I bothered almost and I knew she'd be back out there on her doorstep banging something or other/singing on the next Thursday.

It led to a lot of "inhumanity". Both my parents died in 2020 back in Devon (of their own illnesses - I checked and I think they'd got me well enough analysed to know not to put anything else on that death certificate or there'd be investigation/blazing row). My erstwhile brother and his wife both drive/have cars and live about a couple of hours drive from the parents then house - and I had to point out firmly to him that they could just get a suitable official letter to prove why they were driving back to Devon if the police stopped them - so that there would be someone there with my mother at that awful little cremation service. Followed by saying "If I could drive and I had a car - then I would go. But neither applies and public transport ain't working". He got told very firmly he could get a suitable official letter to show any police that stopped him en route and they'd have to let him drive on in those circumstances. I think he envisaged a long distance kick up the backside and so he went.

The "kick up the backside" happened after our mother died shortly after our father did and I sent him/his wife/his children a farewell email and not a peep out of them since. Though I had analysed my brother well enough years in advance to know him rather better than he'd have liked - so I'd long known I'd be sending him a "get lost" email for bad behaviour at some point anyway.

MaizieD

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...

Definitely not rocket science.

Just normal government inefficiency and bureaucracy…

Manufacturers deliver PPE directly to the hospitals as orders are raised. Major Incident PPE is held in large centralised stores, which hold other Major Incident stock as well. Major Incident stock is not just used for pandemics, but for incidents affecting one area only (eg a chemical spillage, an explosion with multiple casualties, or whatever). What was missing was the link between the ordering systems so that the Major Incident PPE was supplied to hospitals and replaced with new stock on a regular basis.

Casdon what hampered acquisitions at the beginning of 2020 was China holding onto PPE

80% of what we use in the UK is manufactured in China.

The prices started escalating mid January, and continued upwards. Availability was scant and unreliable.

I know what happened, GrannyGravy13, I was actually there. The Major Incident stock was used to bail out the hospitals due to the delays in deliveries of new stock. However, as the shortage bit harder and new stock that was delivered had to be withdrawn because it was not up to the required standard, the hospitals had no option but to use out of date PPE Major Incident stock, which had of course been tested to make sure it still met the standard. It was a very tricky few weeks for the NHS.

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...

Definitely not rocket science.

Just normal government inefficiency and bureaucracy…

It wasn't the government, though. It was a private company it had been contracted out to. Because, according to the tories, private companies are more efficient than the state sector..

Casdon unfortunately so was I, on the end of the phone trying to source PPE

Yes, it was even trickier for the private sector, including care homes and community care providers, because as the hospitals were at that time full of Covid patients and obviously other vulnerable patients , they were prioritised. It just didn’t feel like it at the time, I’d never want any hospital to have to go through that again.