The U.K. is prepared for nothing

Cossy

In terms of lockdown, sorry but imo too late, too little action and not proper lockdowns.

Friends in both Spain and Cyprus had much earlier, well monitored lockdowns, but much shorter in duration

There's a startling (though I think it's been designed to look more startling than it really is) graphic on P116 of the full report which shows the daily covid deaths per 100,000 over the course of March to July 2020. The number of deaths dropped quite sharply as lockdown took effect.

TBH, I don't know whether this was the result of lockdown or of improving treatment methods. But It does show a positive effect.

Sadly, the report doesn't show any similar charts for the duration of the pandemic. They could have been useful for monitoring the effect of restrictions and removing restrictions.

In terms of lockdown, sorry but imo too late, too little action and not proper lockdowns.

Friends in both Spain and Cyprus had much earlier, well monitored lockdowns, but much shorter in duration

Whitewavemark2

I am not being party political - what I mean is that government/parliament/military/civil service etc are all too complacent.

There is a ridiculous opinion - as there was during covid - that the U.K. is the best. Whereas in fact we were far from it and should learn from this feeling of superiority.

I completely agree, however, I do remember one or two recent “statements” from this government about ensuring we all have at least three days worth of food and bottled water, candles, torches, blankets and other useful things in case we have any kind of emergencies moving forward.

Sarnia

David49

Like Australia and NZ they could have stopped travel entirely maybe compensated those estranged abroad and locked down everything at home.

That would have stopped the spread but at what cost, as we know that first year was pretty disastrous I’m not convinced that any other government would have done much different, but at least we have a decent PPE supply now.

Mentioning PPE, has Mone repaid her ill gotten gains?

Did Mone’s company go bankrupt??

David49

Like Australia and NZ they could have stopped travel entirely maybe compensated those estranged abroad and locked down everything at home.

That would have stopped the spread but at what cost, as we know that first year was pretty disastrous I’m not convinced that any other government would have done much different, but at least we have a decent PPE supply now.

Mentioning PPE, has Mone repaid her ill gotten gains?

David49

Like Australia and NZ they could have stopped travel entirely maybe compensated those estranged abroad and locked down everything at home.

That would have stopped the spread but at what cost, as we know that first year was pretty disastrous I’m not convinced that any other government would have done much different, but at least we have a decent PPE supply now.

My sister lives in WA, they had two very short lockdowns, and the rest of the time life was pretty much exactly as normal, with free movement. There were severe travel restrictions, with two week hotel quarantine for all arrivals, and the state borders were controlled. For those that lived there, it was good, the economy remained buoyant. We relied on them posting photos of normal life to keep us going.

Casdon

I can imagine GrannyGravy13, the effects were felt throughout society due to the PPE shortages. I hope some British manufacturers have sprung up subsequently.

I seem to recall that British manufacturers were sidelined. As were British ventilator manufacturers. I might be wrong, though. Maybe it will all come out when the covid inquiry delivers its report on the procurement module.

Nobody really comes out smelling of roses in the report just published; scientists do slightly better than government…

Like Australia and NZ they could have stopped travel entirely maybe compensated those estranged abroad and locked down everything at home.

That would have stopped the spread but at what cost, as we know that first year was pretty disastrous I’m not convinced that any other government would have done much different, but at least we have a decent PPE supply now.

People have said several times on this thread that the government can be exonerated because they acted on scientific advice. They did not always do so, so no.

Areas of Divergence and Delay:
Initial Lockdown: SAGE papers indicated that an earlier lockdown was advised, but the government delayed the first national lockdown in March 2020 by about a week, a decision that some experts estimate cost many lives.
"Eat Out to Help Out" Scheme: A 2020 government report found that the scheme, which subsidised meals in restaurants, was devised without consultation with scientific advisors and was "inconsistent" with public health messaging at the time, contributing to an increase in infections.
Testing Capacity: Early in the pandemic, scientific advisers consistently recommended expanding testing capacity, but Public Health England's initial approach was a centralised and limited one.
International Learning: Some experts noted an "English exceptionalism" and an initial unwillingness to learn from the experiences of other countries in East Asia that implemented early suppression strategies like mass testing and contact tracing.
Inquiry reports from cross-party groups of MPs have concluded that while the government was serious about obtaining scientific advice, the application was inconsistent, and lessons were not always applied quickly or transparently enough to avoid mistakes.

Allsorts

What a waste if time and money it was. How could anyone have the answers to the situation as it was then, the World virtually shut down for goodness sake not just us. This culture of enquiry after enquiry to gain nothing except for the people running them is absurd. The government acted on top scientific advice and medical opinions at the tine, Can you imagine if they didn't. Perhaps they should have consulted lawyers first,

Frankly as far as Johnson and Cummings was concerned, their incompetence and lack of care ensured that the U.K. was run like an. amateur circus.

Yes, other countries struggled, of course they did but not to the level our government took it.

What a waste if time and money it was. How could anyone have the answers to the situation as it was then, the World virtually shut down for goodness sake not just us. This culture of enquiry after enquiry to gain nothing except for the people running them is absurd. The government acted on top scientific advice and medical opinions at the tine, Can you imagine if they didn't. Perhaps they should have consulted lawyers first,

I did eventually find the answer on .gov

How much PPE is currently in storage and how much does this cost?

We currently have around 5.8 billion items of excess PPE, which is equal to 15% of the total stock purchased.

Since the height of the pandemic, PPE storage costs have reduced significantly and we continue to prioritise efforts to minimise them. We have already reduced storage costs by 78% since the first three months of 2021. In January 2023 it cost approximately £564,000 per day to store PPE.

To manage PPE stock, including any excess stock, we have put in place a management data system track the volume of PPE items in stock.

£500,000 per day - £190m a year.

GoldenAge 👏👏👏

We can live without so many things but not food or clean water.

I can imagine GrannyGravy13, the effects were felt throughout society due to the PPE shortages. I hope some British manufacturers have sprung up subsequently.

Casdon our SME is a supply company.

Trying to fulfil orders and ensure that our stock was safe from opportunist burglars was a nightmare. Which ended with our home garages becoming storage units

In agreement with Allira about the need to be more supportive to UK farmers to create a better food infrastructure and state of readiness in emergency. Having moved from London to a farm in the SW I have been amazed to actually see the farmer's life which isn't the cosy 'fat cat' image often portrayed by those with no knowledge of what life is like when trying to grow food or rear cattle. Sure, city dwellers might get up at 6.00 am to get into the city and not return until 7.00 pm but for that they get a guaranteed salary, paid holiday, some form of pension arrangement, a five-day week. Farmers get up at 5.00 am and start work then, not stopping until at the earliest 8.00 pm and in the summer when it's still light and animals don't go to bed that early, it's later. Now add to that the fact that there are NO paid holidays, and NO five-day weeks, and NO pension arrangements and you can begin to see that UK farmers need a lot more government support. Some such support could come in the form of a general population education programme which teaches people, and children in schools, the true cost of producing fruit, veg and meat and prepares them to pay for a decent price for that. The supermarkets are big culprits in creating the mindset that agricultural produce can be bought cheaply. They too should be supporting UK farmers much more. If these problems could be addressed, the UK would be substantially better quipped to cope with food-related disasters.

Yes, it was even trickier for the private sector, including care homes and community care providers, because as the hospitals were at that time full of Covid patients and obviously other vulnerable patients , they were prioritised. It just didn’t feel like it at the time, I’d never want any hospital to have to go through that again.

Casdon unfortunately so was I, on the end of the phone trying to source PPE

GrannyGravy13

MaizieD

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...

Definitely not rocket science.

Just normal government inefficiency and bureaucracy…

It wasn't the government, though. It was a private company it had been contracted out to. Because, according to the tories, private companies are more efficient than the state sector..

I know what happened, GrannyGravy13, I was actually there. The Major Incident stock was used to bail out the hospitals due to the delays in deliveries of new stock. However, as the shortage bit harder and new stock that was delivered had to be withdrawn because it was not up to the required standard, the hospitals had no option but to use out of date PPE Major Incident stock, which had of course been tested to make sure it still met the standard. It was a very tricky few weeks for the NHS.

Casdon what hampered acquisitions at the beginning of 2020 was China holding onto PPE

80% of what we use in the UK is manufactured in China.

The prices started escalating mid January, and continued upwards. Availability was scant and unreliable.

Manufacturers deliver PPE directly to the hospitals as orders are raised. Major Incident PPE is held in large centralised stores, which hold other Major Incident stock as well. Major Incident stock is not just used for pandemics, but for incidents affecting one area only (eg a chemical spillage, an explosion with multiple casualties, or whatever). What was missing was the link between the ordering systems so that the Major Incident PPE was supplied to hospitals and replaced with new stock on a regular basis.

MaizieD

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...

Definitely not rocket science.

Just normal government inefficiency and bureaucracy…

The whole idea of "maybe it will happen again - ie Covid and Lockdown" feels like ill-wishing to me. I'd rather stand up firmly and go "Nope - never again". I think it's 5 "big plague" type illnesses there'd been so far before then for someone in my agegroup and I hadn't even heard of them at the time they happened. Nothing changed whatsoever for them - and the only difference was "This time we have the Internet - those 5 times we didn't". There was no other difference I could see...

There was so much that was illogical (ie worse Lockdown in Wales than England - so a couple of feet across a line on a map made a difference - apparently!). Then there was (former) friend I'd invited round for Boxing Day lunch with me - as she'd told me she was going to see her "best friend and husband" for Christmas lunch under the "bubble arrangements". Cue for Dripford decided to say "Oh no - we won't let people off the hook after all for Boxing Day. Restrictions again then" and former friend had to have it pointed out to her that only living a couple of hundred feet from each other and it would be an empty road she'd be walking to get to my house and Boxing Day was only a few hours of a difference from Christmas Day and I live on my own - whereas best friend had a husband. She did come round - but I don't know why I bothered almost and I knew she'd be back out there on her doorstep banging something or other/singing on the next Thursday.

It led to a lot of "inhumanity". Both my parents died in 2020 back in Devon (of their own illnesses - I checked and I think they'd got me well enough analysed to know not to put anything else on that death certificate or there'd be investigation/blazing row). My erstwhile brother and his wife both drive/have cars and live about a couple of hours drive from the parents then house - and I had to point out firmly to him that they could just get a suitable official letter to prove why they were driving back to Devon if the police stopped them - so that there would be someone there with my mother at that awful little cremation service. Followed by saying "If I could drive and I had a car - then I would go. But neither applies and public transport ain't working". He got told very firmly he could get a suitable official letter to show any police that stopped him en route and they'd have to let him drive on in those circumstances. I think he envisaged a long distance kick up the backside and so he went.

The "kick up the backside" happened after our mother died shortly after our father did and I sent him/his wife/his children a farewell email and not a peep out of them since. Though I had analysed my brother well enough years in advance to know him rather better than he'd have liked - so I'd long known I'd be sending him a "get lost" email for bad behaviour at some point anyway.

The emergency PPE stock control should have been simpler than in a commercial operation, GG13 because there was no selling on involved. The stock nearing its expiry date could have gone to hospitals etc. and the numbers made back up to the required amount with new. It's not rocket science.

But it appears that the private company which had the contract for storing and maintaining it wasn't particularly efficient...