The Budget

tbh, comes across as RR is your DD.
And will be defended whatever.

DAR - I personally do not understand your stance in the slightest.

That is the reason why it is always best to post a link to the information you are quoting from, then other posters have the full context and can make their points accordingly? We are caught between chat and serious discussion so often because some post one way and some another.

The Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) is considered a dependable source due to its reputation for high-quality, independent economic research, its influence on policymakers across the political spectrum, and its transparency regarding funding. While some political commentators may disagree with specific findings, the organization maintains a generally solid reputation for impartiality and is recognized as a leading independent economic research institute in the UK.

Of course, this doesn’t matter if the experts on a social media platform don't like what it says.

The labour word for a lie, or a misleading statement may also be known as an administrative error or a failure around the part of the husband to carry out his due diligence

Darren Jones, Chief Secretary to the Treasury is quoted as saying that of course Rachael Reeves didn’t lie.
So I guess all this rests on the definition of a lie?
What bothers me more is that the financial markets seem more or less pacified by the budget. That’s obviously good for borrowing money and we seem to be borrowing loads so that should help the economy recover but at what cost to the average working person?

David49

GrannyGravy13

Apologies posted prematurely.

RR made a live announcement several weeks before the budget informing the electorate yet again about the size of this elusive black hole and warning of tax rises.

This was after she had been informed by the OBR of the urgent fiscal situation.

Yes, the October figures were better than expected so there was more leeway on the Budget than expected

I think we can all agree that the October OBR figures were better than expected or predicted.

I still question why on 4th November, Rachel Reeves felt it necessary to address the nation live (shown on all breakfast news programmes) informing the electorate of the necessity for austerity measures and tax increases due to the size of the black hole

This to me and it appears many others was deceptive (some say an outright lie) and not an inspiring way for a chancellor to conduct themselves.

I was expecting more clarity and truth from this government, unfortunately I have been consistently underwhelmed.

Mollygo

My info came from the ifs. It amazes me how people reject any sources that don’t fit their views.
Actually, Thats not true. It doesn’t amaze me. I’ve come to expect it.

I’ve completely lost the thread of this argument but the IFS, like all the ‘accepted’ neoliberal organisations and commentators, that supports and disseminates the big lie which has led to the current state of the UK. Failing public services, ever growing poverty, division, anger and hopelessness.

That lie is that taxes fund spending and that shortfalls have to be made up with borrowing. The first enables threads like the ones on the abolition of the 2 child cap, the second enables wealthy gamblers to play havoc with our monetary systems.

The lies have been proved to be lies, but they have enabled tge growth of extreme wealth and of the power which goes with it.

Fighting over the minor lie of a poor chancellor is a waste of energy…

GrannyGravy13

DAR you seem to be ignoring that myself and others on this thread have heard the words black hole and various amounts from £22 - £30 + billions spoken by Rachel Reeves in live news interviews and on political programmes.

How can you accuse me of ignoring what you have said? I have replied to most, if not all your posts. I think the issue is that we don't agree that the number of times something is reported or recordings played equates to how often it was actually said.

Why were her few word repeated so often. Because, at that time, it was another stick to beat her with. Now it's rebounded on the press and they are acting like kids in the playground who've had their toys taken away.

GrannyGravy13

Apologies posted prematurely.

RR made a live announcement several weeks before the budget informing the electorate yet again about the size of this elusive black hole and warning of tax rises.

This was after she had been informed by the OBR of the urgent fiscal situation.

Yes, the October figures were better than expected so there was more leeway on the Budget than expected

Apologies posted prematurely.

RR made a live announcement several weeks before the budget informing the electorate yet again about the size of this elusive black hole and warning of tax rises.

This was after she had been informed by the OBR of the urgent fiscal situation.

That is the sad thing David. There are people who simply can't do anything other than gripe. There has been an improvement. That is a good thing. Can we have space to enjoy it and to hope?

DAR you seem to be ignoring that myself and others on this thread have heard the words black hole and various amounts from £22 - £30 + billions spoken by Rachel Reeves in live news interviews and on political programmes.

The fact is that there was a £20bn deficit in September that’s not invented it actually happened, followed by £4.5 billion surplus in October.

Add them both together is a £15.5 billion deficit, the current deficit from March is £36bn, forecast to rise to £100 billion hear end March 26.

I’ve no idea what qualifies as a black hole but any reduction in deficit seems a good idea to me. I was pleased that limits on the vast sums that were being put into pensions were being restricted and other taxation changes. There were also other changes to come being hinted that really need to be made, inheritance tax in particular

GrannyGravy13

DAR you are welcome to suggest what you like.

I know what I have heard and from whom.

So when exactly did Rachel Reeves personally mislead you GrannyGravy13? Everything you hear from journalists carries their own bias overlaid by yours.

This Labour government gave a better budget than either the right or their client media wanted them to be able to do. They rubbed their hands with glee and exaggerated in every way they could, as they attacked the opposing party. What they hadn't anticipated was new figures coming in so close to the budget. Rachel Reeves may have hoped those figures would be better but it looks as if it was confirmed by the OBR after the press briefings.

Now we can hear the press hissy fits all over the, err, "news". This is, of course, press manipulated and a great deal of that press is the client media of the right.

How unbiased is that going to be? No doubt this will be heard in detail in more fitting circumstances than our current biased press. We will find out when Reeves had the improved tax take (which I believe us the figure that gave her greater "headroom"). Then a proper decision can be made by the proper authority.

However, whatever that decision is, don't expect an end to the bias of those who support the right and far-right or the multimillionaire owned cabal of right-wing client media.

Mollygo

My info came from the ifs. It amazes me how people reject any sources that don’t fit their views.
Actually, Thats not true. It doesn’t amaze me. I’ve come to expect it.

It happens all the time they choose whichever headline or do called expert that supports their cause without any regard for the reality or consequences.

My info came from the ifs. It amazes me how people reject any sources that don’t fit their views.
Actually, Thats not true. It doesn’t amaze me. I’ve come to expect it.

Sorry Allira, I was quoting this poster who said it on the page before.

MaizieD
There is not, and never was, a 'black hole'. I've been telling you that ever since it was first mentioned

Serial liars - not a good look for the country. Wrap them up in Christmas paper and send them away.

Mollygo

^There is not, and never was, a 'black hole'. I've been telling you that ever since it was first mentioned.^
I can’t remember who posted that, but are they saying Reeves and Starmer lied?

My quote was from the latest Budget speech.

Was it the OBR Mollygo? 😂

There is not, and never was, a 'black hole'. I've been telling you that ever since it was first mentioned.
I can’t remember who posted that, but are they saying Reeves and Starmer lied?

^While the current budget balance is in deficit by £28.8bn in 26/27 and £4.6bn in 27/28^…

DAR - Rachel Reeves actually said in her budget speech
“there is a black hole in the public finances”
“In July I discovered a £22 bn black hole”
But she didn’t confess that at the time of the budget, this black hole had disappeared and there was £4.2 billion surplus

MaizieD

Allira

I hope there will always be people to support you Maizie

That is not sustainable long-term.

What isn't sustainable long term?

Younger people paying the pensions of older people.