Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

Oreo that is not your judgement to make.

Smileless2012

^a number of Church of England clergy doubt the account of the Miraculous Conception and Virgin birth^ so does anyone know what they see as being the alternative?

Do they agree with certain passages in the Talmot that mention the accusation that Mary had an affair with an unknown soldier resulting in her pregnancy, so Joseph agreed to marry her out of kindness?

Or do they believe that Joseph was the father? What other alternatives are there for anyone who doesn't believe in the virgin birth?

I don't think it is worth speculating, I'm a Catholic so obviously Mary is very special to us. Jesus was born, that is enough.

Iam64

JD Vance said recently that he hopes his wife, a Hindu, will covert to Christianity.

Oreo, being a vicar is not like being a social worker

It is if they don’t believe the major tenets of Christianity.

I dont think it matters who the Dad was, actually. Jesus was born to Mary and led the life he did, gifting us with the change in religious thinking from a mainly judgemental and possibly often a punitive G/god, to one of Compassionate Love (as defined within the strictures of the time) - there are many key stories, one has to be the good Samaritan, as it is inclusive of diverse communities, another key one has to be the great significance of love - as we are told in Corinthians 1:13

the end half of it reads,

"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10 but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12 For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love

JD Vance said recently that he hopes his wife, a Hindu, will covert to Christianity.

Oreo, being a vicar is not like being a social worker

a number of Church of England clergy doubt the account of the Miraculous Conception and Virgin birth so does anyone know what they see as being the alternative?

Do they agree with certain passages in the Talmot that mention the accusation that Mary had an affair with an unknown soldier resulting in her pregnancy, so Joseph agreed to marry her out of kindness?

Or do they believe that Joseph was the father? What other alternatives are there for anyone who doesn't believe in the virgin birth?

theworriedwell yes I know that. I look forward to seeing any changes this Pope introduces, if he does?

theworriedwell

Oreo

There are certain things to believe in any faith that makes you an adherent to that particular faith and with Christianity I think that Smileless2012 really knows what she’s talking about.
Those who waffle about just being good in life, well that’s just fine but it doesn’t make you a Christian or a Jew or Muslim, since we’re being pedantic about it.

Look it up, for example a number of Church of England clergy doubt the account if the Miraculous Conception and Virgin birth. I guess they all need Smileless to let them know they aren't actually Christians.

Yes, quite possibly they do! And if any of them don’t believe in the resurrection as well then they may as well just have become social workers.

Maremia

Hadn't been aware of that consequence of euthanasia.

I wasn't either, and don't like it!

ronib

It’s a touch ironic that the Pope in the Vatican City is very cosseted from the consequences of his own teachings. The Vatican City does not accept migrants to my knowledge.
Also Jesus wasn’t on earth at a time of mass migration and huge population numbers. His time doesn’t correspond to ours in many ways.

You know he hasn't lived his whole life in the Vatican.

Hadn't been aware of that consequence of euthanasia.

Wyllow, I find it shocking that it took so long to change that practice. The heartbreak caused to the survivors.
Thanks for the information.

ronib

Isn’t JD Vance a mainstream Catholic? His views are that of the Catholic community so maybe the Pope is the right person to give guidance? Perhaps he will? foxie48
Given the menu board, Ben Habib doesn’t seem so bad but it’s very early days.

The Pope has very different views to Vance. As a Catholic I follow the teachings of the Poor and don't recognise Vanced views.

It is called 'Hacksaw Ridge' theworriedwell. We were blown away when we saw it; he was an amazing man wasn't he.

But, in the 2000 years since it began, Christianity has evolved into a variety of 'versions.
Big split in the 16th century when Protestantism emerged.
Much earlier, would have to check the dates, the eastern and western versions diverged into Orthodox and Roman Catholic, with different practices, and the date of Easter, which is the most important of all the feasts.
With the Protestant faith, you have the Luther and Calvinist variations.
In the UK you have the High Church, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, Baptists, Wesleyans, Free Church, United Free Church and others I can't call to mind just now.
Recently the Ukrainians have split from the Russian Orthodox Church.
I know that rules and practices have changed, causing these schisms, but I don't know if the essential dogmas have also changed.

It amazes me that any do theworriedwell and not a church I would be a member of.

That's as it should be as Jesus said "suffer the little children to come unto me"; they should not be hindered.

Maremia, it was, finally, in 2017 in the C of E throughout the world, as it varied.

There are still Christian churches that don't follow this or only partly follow it:

In the Eastern Orthodox Church is is a case by case depending on the clergy, which I was aware of,

and, google informs me,
"Clergy in certain denominations may still be permitted to object to a full Christian burial if the death was the result of physician-assisted suicide or euthanasia, as this is often considered a deliberate act against Church teachings"

This could be an issue if laws on Euthanasia are passed in parliament

Generally, for me its an illustration of the concept of the separation of body and soul and consequences of.

Elegran

Without the stretcher-bearers and other auxiliary workers, the soldiers doing the actual fighting and killing of the enemy (and getting killed or dying of their injuries) would have had some agonising waits - any of which would have been too long to save them.

Plenty of those who refused to kill were killed themselves as they went unarmed through enemy fire to succour the wounded and bring out the dead. Refusing to take lives is not cowardice, it is obeying a primary law.

There is a film about one pacifist who did heroic things in the US army. I think it's called Hacksaw Ridge. I found the film very moving and the man, I think he might have been called Desmond, a wonderful example of someone who stood by his principles. He won a medal maybe the Congressional Medal of Honour. I'm sure someone will know.

foxie48

Interesting though these posts have been, I'm still wondering what putting "Christ back into Christmas" actually means to Tommy Robinson and how many British people will respond to his "invitation".
One of the last times I was in Anglican church was for the christening of a friend's two children. The local, extremely popular primary school was CofE and had very strict rules regarding admission criteria which included church attendance and membership of the church. The vicar was rather hostile to the row of "visitors" to his church, had chosen rather obscure hymns and actually criticised the uncertain mumbles coming from some of the congregation. It was a thoroughly unpleasant experience. Hopefully this particular vicar is not representative but as a visitor to this church I was definitely made to feel like an "outsider".

I know if a young unmarried mother who came to my Catholic priest to ask for Baptism for her baby due to similar attitudes. She said he assured her that her baby was welcome in his church as should always be the case.

At my GSs Baptism there were people of many faiths and none and all were welcome. I find it hard to imagine a Christian church that doesn't welcome everyone.

Oreo

There are certain things to believe in any faith that makes you an adherent to that particular faith and with Christianity I think that Smileless2012 really knows what she’s talking about.
Those who waffle about just being good in life, well that’s just fine but it doesn’t make you a Christian or a Jew or Muslim, since we’re being pedantic about it.

Look it up, for example a number of Church of England clergy doubt the account if the Miraculous Conception and Virgin birth. I guess they all need Smileless to let them know they aren't actually Christians.

I thought it had been Wyllow?

Whitewavemark2

Smileless2012

The belief that all souls are worth saving is a core tenet of Christianity WW.

It’s a pity that the Christian church has not always believed that all lives are worth saving.

Rest easy, all the Christians I know totally agree, WWM BTW, as do the Muslims I know who I have discussed religion with.

Quakers call the soul, "The Light within" - other Christians too of course -
and no point saving said light or soul without getting involved in the politics and conflicts that respect a the basic right to life and live without fear wherever possible.

A view of the soul being saved but not the body as reassuring....

belongs to the days of babies born un baptised before a death or out of wedlock and couldn't not be buried properly within the church, ditto someone who has committed suicide. this bitter past needs to be left behind.

Yes it is WW.

Is it known which Carol services Yaxley-Lennon is planning to attend (spoil for the congregation)?
Could suggest some carols, for the service,

'I saw three ships come sailing by'
'We three Kings of Orient are'

What job?