Tommy Robinson’s ‘put Christ back into Christmas’ message"

Smileless2012

Christians share the same belief Wyllow, that's what makes us Christians.

We don't all believe the same thing. I believe in transubstantiation but I'm aware not all Christians do.

Smileless2012

I should have said that nothing has changed in terms of the Christian faith WW.

You're right of course that the institution of the church has seen many changes and no doubt there will be others but Christianity is based on the belief of Jesus as the Son of God, made man through the immaculate conception/virgin birth and His resurrection.

That has never changed.

Mary was the Immaculate Conception, Jesus was the Miraculous Conception. Well that's what the nuns taught me (well beat into me. Not a lot of Christian charity.)

Just wondering is the Immaculate Conception taught differently by non Catholic Christian churches.

In the Methodist Church the immaculate conception is central alongside the risen Christ, which is why the cross is always empty.

One thing I picked up from somewhere (or perhaps worked out for myself) is that we are all the children of God, so whatever Jesus' earthly conception was, he was the ultimate representation of all humanity.

Rosie51

In the Methodist Church the immaculate conception is central alongside the risen Christ, which is why the cross is always empty.

Sorry but I'm not clear. Is the teaching that Mary was the Immaculate Conception or Jesus was the Immaculate Conception?

As a Catholic id say the Miraculous Conception is more fundamental than the Immaculate Conception but I'm wondering do they mean the same thing, is your Immaculate Conception our Miraculous Conception?

theworriedwell The doctrine of the inheritance of Original Sin from Adam and Eve made it difficult for the early church to reconcile Jesus' birth to an ordinary woman who had that inheritance, so Mary was exempted by believing her too as being conceived without sin. I wonder how far back that loophole could be extended?

Yes I understand that. What confuses me is non Catholics often seem to use Immaculate Conception to refer to Mary conceiving Jesus which is not the Catholic use of it.

I honestly haven’t heard of this Elegran. I wonder what Mary’s parents might have said about this?
Seriously the miracle of life is too much associated with sin by Christian beliefs one could suggest? Do other religions/faiths preach this too?

The imposition of celibacy on RC priests didn't happen until the 11th C.

Oh sorry theworriedwell yes it's the conception of Jesus that is immaculate, Mary was and remained a virgin.

MaizieD

The imposition of celibacy on RC priests didn't happen until the 11th C.

The Popes didn’t seem to be celibate even much later than that date.

Whitewavemark2

Dewar has never been consecrated. But naturally he doesn’t think it necessary to become a bishop.

I’ve decided to be Queen next week.

😂

Allira

He identifies as an Evangelical Bishop.

I'm identifying as the new Archbishop of Canterbury.
Just until Saturday.

Chief Rabbi after Saturday?🤔

Rosie51

Oh sorry theworriedwell yes it's the conception of Jesus that is immaculate, Mary was and remained a virgin.

As a Catholic that was Miraculous, Immaculate wasn't to do with Virginity it was that when St Anne conceived Mary, by the normal biological method, Mary wasn't born with the inherited original sin from Adam and Eve. So that is a big difference between denominations.

You can't pick and choose whether or not to believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection if you are a Christian theworriedwell.

You don't have to believe in transubstantiation but you cannot be a Christian if you don't believe in the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus. These are in the Bible, transubstantiation is an interpretation of Jesus' words at the last supper; it is not in the Bible.

Smileless2012

You can't pick and choose whether or not to believe in the virgin birth and the resurrection if you are a Christian theworriedwell.

You don't have to believe in transubstantiation but you cannot be a Christian if you don't believe in the virgin birth and resurrection of Jesus. These are in the Bible, transubstantiation is an interpretation of Jesus' words at the last supper; it is not in the Bible.

But beliefs differ. Interpretations differ. You seem to believe Jesus was the Immaculate Conception which is not right according to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

The last supper and what Jesus said is in the bible. He clearly stated "For this is my body.". Good enough for me and millions of Catholics.

Of course there are also different translations of the bible and gospels that weren't included.

There is an old Catholic prayer about Mary's Immaculate Conception,

Oh Mary, conceived without sin,
Pray for us who have recourse to thee.🙏

When Mary appeared to Bernadette in Lourdes, she said,
I am the Immaculate Conception.

Yesterday, 8th December, was the feast of the Immaculate Conception.

Grannmarie

There is an old Catholic prayer about Mary's Immaculate Conception,

Oh Mary, conceived without sin,
Pray for us who have recourse to thee.🙏

When Mary appeared to Bernadette in Lourdes, she said,
I am the Immaculate Conception.

Yesterday, 8th December, was the feast of the Immaculate Conception.

Thank you, that was the very prayer going through my head.

I'm not saying that beliefs and interpretations don't differ theworriedwell but believing in the virgin birth and Jesus' resurrection are not open to interpretation, they are the essence of Christianity.

I believe Jesus was a humane and wonderful philosopher. I admire and would wish to be like him but often fail. He may have been the son of god or may not. But if you call yourself a Christian surely it is fundamental that you follow or try your best to follow his teaching, that is far more important than going to any one of the denominations of Christian churches. People like Tommy Robinson only fool fools with their posturing of religious fakery.

Smileless2012

I'm not saying that beliefs and interpretations don't differ theworriedwell but believing in the virgin birth and Jesus' resurrection are not open to interpretation, they are the essence of Christianity.

You don't know my beliefs, other than transubstantiation, and to be honest I don't think you should judge other people's beliefs be they Christians of yours denomination or another denomination or people of another faith.

The nuns who taught me used to say prayers are like smoke, they all go up, some take a slightly different route and some get blown about but in the end they all go up.

Hear hear.

The most truly religious person I ever knew was my granny. Mass every day, when she was dying a very painful death she never complained but just looked forward to the day she would be with the Lord.

I never heard her say a negative word about anyone else's beliefs be they Catholic, Protestant, from another religion or none. She even went to weddings and baptisms in other churches at a time when other Catholics wouldn't. She demonstrated true Christianity to me.

I looked up CofE and they do believe the Miraculous Conception of Jesus but not the Immaculate Conception of Mary which apparently is a Catholic belief.