2 boat people Afghans jailed for raping 15 year old girl

I’m not sure that you can productively discuss rape as a whole in terms of preventing it.

I actually believe that for effective prevention it has to be identified in patterns and each pattern addressed in relevant measures.

So I do think it is important to explore this emerging pattern separately, it’s possible origins and reasons and what specifically can be done to prevent its growth.

I believe that the prevention of rape and violence against women, is more important than a desire to treat these rapes as whole male pattern.

Effective prevention, even if it does mean exploring the possible influence of ethnicity and religious belief in these cases must take priority.

petra

CariadAgain
The only time a person needs your permission to take a photo of you, is, you are in your home or garden or your on private land.

I know that's how the law stands currently. I go by where morals stand - and it's obviously immoral to take a photo of someone without their agreement. Sometimes people have good reason....sometimes that's just how they prefer it....but it ain't right to take a photo of someone without their agreement. I remember flying at an ex-boyfriend on holiday abroad in a Greek location and he was just going to take a photo without asking of a local priest that had just sat down. Cue for me flying at him and telling him he must ask the priests permission to do that - which he had to do to shut me up and the priest did duly agree. But it was the priests right to have his say about any photo taken of him. All very well to take a photo of a group of pretty little kittens playing with each other - but the priest was a person and it was their call.

I know I've had an occasion as a steward of a march years back where the woman I'd just gotten on friendly terms with by me saw the cameras and cue for me instantly having to turn into protecting her from the camera - because she'd just told me she was a battered wife and had escaped across the country from him and wanted to "do her bit" and support the demo...but did not want possible personal repercussions against her. Very good reason to protect her from the camera lens imo - so there was no chance he'd see the footage and realise where she was and I was duly shielding her from view until the camera had gone away again.

At the social thing I went to yesterday photos were wanted of "What a happy local gathering this is..." and someone came round first with a placard explaining why they wanted to take the cameras out and asking everyone's permission individually. Which is just how I think it should have been....

CariadAgain
The only time a person needs your permission to take a photo of you, is, you are in your home or garden or your on private land.

So is the thread about the abuse perpetrated by catholics also hateful and anti Catholic. If not why not?

Wyllow3- 10.11- I completely agree.

GrannyGravy-it's not ok for asylum seekers to rape, just as it's not ok for UK citizens to rape. It's never OK to rape. Asylum seekers who are convicted will not be able to settle in UK; all efforts will be sought to deport them once they have been convicted.

Well that's me told then - I'd wondered why there seem to be a lot of short videos out there (yep they're up on YouTube too) and also places like Instagram - and these videos feature young British women out for the night/joking around/not wearing much in the way of clothing often (ie sometimes skirts so short you wonder if their knickers are on show).

Now I know - ie it's a tactic these people smugglers use to entice men from less civilised countries to Britain. They are specifically - non-verbally - making out "These British women - they're available and easy" !!!!!! Definitely making out that we're up for grabs - literally. This is NOT helpful - to say the least - to think we're being advertised as if we're goods on a supermarket shelf and there for the taking.

....and yet useful/practical type posts on these places get censored off (eg because current government disagrees with people being able to get full facts about things) and yet these misleading "women available for free" type videos get left up there....and I can see that many of these young girls are just going to think "Oh its a bit of fun and I want to be an influencer anyway" and not realise there's darker reasons why some strange man wants to video them...

As someone who was a political activist for years = I recall a few photos grabbed of me when younger....for that sort of reason (yep I even recall a man to my astonishment leaping up/photographing a gathering of a few of us in someone's private sitting room from their front garden and running off. How did they even know there was a mini political gathering going on in someone's home? and it was none of their business it was). So my own reaction to a camera is to clock the photographer one or run for it. But these young partygoing women arent going to realise people need permission before taking one's photo and you need to know who they are.

Wyllow3 I'm happy to discuss rape and abuse as a whole and incomers as part of that, but this continual obsessive blaming on various immigrants is just really racist and hate mongering.

So when a case is about an Afghan asylum seeker you think that shouldn't be mentioned? The point you seem to miss, whether deliberately or through lack of understanding is that we can't deport our home grown criminals but can and should deport foreign born ones with no rigt of appeal when they've committed a criminal act.
If you don't want to discuss the subject of this thread then nobody is going to force you to do so, but you equally don't have the right to shut down other people by slinging silly meaningless accusations of racism and hate around.

I'm happy to discuss rape and abuse as a whole

It is a worrying trend, ongoing and getting worse with messages from misogynists online influencing boys and young men. A huge problem which should not be subsumed in this.

This is a different and unique new problem and needs to be discussed separately.

I'm happy to discuss rape and abuse as a whole and incomers as part of that, but this continual obsessive blaming on various immigrants is just really racist and hate mongering.

I think you should be careful of your use of the term' racist.'

The recent murderers and racists discussed on here have been identified and convicted of their crimes.
People are understandably fearful of more unidentified males arriving with little respect for British conduct.

Exactly TerriBull 👍

When there are millions of male UK citizens as opposed to thousands of male asylum seekers, then the odds dictate that there is more of a likelihood of an assault by a UK national and of course unfortunately that happens. I don't think anyone on this thread is denying that. We live in an age where porn and the pernicious influence of misogynists such as Andrew Tate have driven much of this along. I thought that had been established over and over, we have our own miscreants, they walk among us, we can't get rid of them though can we?

The points raised on this thread are about disproportionality of of the "various" who are variously are over represented in such crimes and unlike their British counterparts we should be able to get rid of them. Why would we want to add even more abusers to the ones we already have?

Wyllow3

UK born male citizens see women every day dressed as per we dress and go and rape women or often having grown up in an environment where women are abused, go on and abuse women.

Your GD and her friends are far more likely to be abused by a UK born and raised male

I'm happy to discuss rape and abuse as a whole and incomers as part of that, but this continual obsessive blaming on various immigrants is just really racist and hate mongering.

Over on another thread we are discussing just ouse of the abuse that happened under the guise of Christianity: I was sexually abused two months ago in a worship setting; lets get things in proportion.

The pertinent question is if these asylum seekers want to settle in the U.K. for a better life, what makes them think that raping, assaulting and even murdering innocent U.K. citizens is OK 🤬🤷‍♀️

One assault/rape is one too many, unfortunately there are more cases coming to light on a regular basis.

Of course we know that U.K. born citizens rape, assault and murder, no one is denying that.

This asylum/migrant offending is different for many reasons and needs to be addressed pronto!

AGAA4

I agree. These men should not be allowed out until they have been educated, maybe even having to pass an exam.
When I see how my GD and her friends dress to go out, men who have rarely seen a woman who is not covered from head to toe may think they are available for sex.
They need to learn that there will be consequences.

Yes I agree. My gd, back in the summertime, as with many girls of her age was wearing the low slung jeans with a lot of bare midriff and I'd hate to think such girls are viewed as easy meat. Our generation wore the very short skirts of the day. In both instances it was about the fashion, we dressed for ourselves, not to give out "come and get me" signals.

UK born male citizens see women every day dressed as per we dress and go and rape women or often having grown up in an environment where women are abused, go on and abuse women.

Your GD and her friends are far more likely to be abused by a UK born and raised male

I'm happy to discuss rape and abuse as a whole and incomers as part of that, but this continual obsessive blaming on various immigrants is just really racist and hate mongering.

Over on another thread we are discussing just ouse of the abuse that happened under the guise of Christianity: I was sexually abused two months ago in a worship setting; lets get things in proportion.

I agree. These men should not be allowed out until they have been educated, maybe even having to pass an exam.
When I see how my GD and her friends dress to go out, men who have rarely seen a woman who is not covered from head to toe may think they are available for sex.
They need to learn that there will be consequences.

in your if you

Oreo

Nobody will just be dumped anywhere.All it should take is a phone call to the foreign office of whatever country, or whoever is in charge, detailing the arrest of the perpetrator and his crime and his name and nationality.Then when the sentence has been served another phone call to let them know that their citizen is on the way there.It’s not rocket science.
Any country that refuses to take back its own criminals has its aid money stopped.

We need to have some leverage as to getting countries to take back their own criminals, if that's withdrawal of aid then so be it. I seem to remember a while ago Australia sent us back some awful person who'd committed umpteen crimes over there. We were expected to take him, presumably because he still had British citizenship, even though he'd barely lived here.

Surely the men who come to this country from societies where women are under the thumb and barely visible should be inculcated in how things are done here something along the lines of:

Women and girls are not property of their menfolk in this country, they go about their life freely, often unaccompanied.

Sometimes they wear clothes that you may consider revealing, that doesn't mean those girls/women are giving out signals they're for sale or you can approach them. Modes of such a dress doesn't mean anything here, it's just fashion.

You do not approach women/girls with suggestive comments, such as asking for sex and you certainly do not touch them.

You will be expected to obey the rules, customs and laws of this country even if they are contrary to what you've been brought up to believe. If you don't like our customs and laws, if you behave inappropriately, this isn't the place for you. If you break the laws, in your carry out any criminal activities, your claim for asylum here will be rejected and you will be deported.

It really doesn't seem that they receive any education in these matters.

It is Starmer who is trying to amend the ECHR eazybee.

There are not likely to be 'loads of people' who having forced their way into other countries illegally, would be 'dumped on our shores or landed on our airports;'.

British people are not invading foreign countries in their thousands, and those that do enter illegally, are generally returned through the normal channels.

Starmer may mouth platitudes but he is a Human Rights lawyer through and through and will do nothing to interfere with the ECHR. (He may, of course, be looking to resume his former career in the near future).

Hopefully the immigration part of the ECHR can be amended to make it easier for the government to deal with the criminals who are coming into our country.
As there seems to be a disproportionate amount of crimes committed by Afghan men on girls and women they need to know they will not be allowed out onto the streets if they arrive here.
Unfortunately ECHR would not allow this. It would be against their human rights. The human rights of those they attack and harm don't seem important.

Of course it would have to be done through political channels but I don’t see why not.If people were returned several times they would give up and settle in all the different countries along the way here or be deported by those countries who seem to be more efficient than we are.

We can damage the boats in Calais and are trying to, but the rest just aren't legally possible however gung ho and angry we feel.

Again, I put forward the point: we in the UK would not accept loads of people just dumped on our shores, nor landing at our airports. In fact there would be outrage.

It is good to be less tolerant of violent predatory men though.

Wylow, my point is stop them coming in the first place. Let it be known that if you don't come through correct channels you are returned within 24 hours. Stop the boats in the channel, have a blockade, damage the boats in Calais, but do something, they go through countries to get here because we are a soft touch so make it impossible. Can you imagine how our youngsters feel, no one should he frightened to walk out in daylight. There will such a backlash to this without doubt, people have had enough. Those men in prison after using vulnerable children for years, send them to the country they hail from whose values they uphold rather than ours, why should we keep them?
My loyalty is to our children.

It’s bringing out the less tolerant side in me. I’d prefer these two returned to Afghanistan on conviction. They can serve their sentence (whatever it may be ) at home