2 boat people Afghans jailed for raping 15 year old girl

I'd also make this analogy. White western men have been visiting countries in south east Asia as sex tourists for quite some time, worst case scenarios they abuse children. If, the lone single western white male in countries such as Thailand or Vietnam is viewed with suspicion as to why he's travelling there, would we throw our hands up in horror of "they are unnfairly having hate and suspicion directed at them" I don't know, maybe, maybe not. What we do know is that seemy side of exploitation has been a thing for a while. Of course not all men would be there for such puposes and would be unfairly besmirched, but some do. The wider issue is about respecting other cultures, that's a two way street, or should be.

I do agree that all young men arriving in this country should be instructed about unacceptable behaviour and firmly told that if they commit a crime they will be deported with no chance of return.

The media loves this sort of story as it sells newspapers. It's a wind them up and see them go story. If a young white man who has been brought up here rapes a girl there will be very little reported. Those brought up here know that rape is wrong.

Hence the need to educate all young men who arrive on our shores. They will have been told that western women are easy and they can do what they like.

Reading the harrowing details of the rape of the girl, some of which recorded on her mobile, she pleaded with them,'Please don't kill me' and I immediately thought of Rhiannon White, who was murdered quite senselessly, by a migrant who had watched and followed her from the migrant hotel where he was housed in Walsall.
It is perfectly legitimate for people to be deeply concerned about the behaviour of these illegal migrants and about the danger to young women, and to express their feelings.
Some years ago, it was footballers.
To set the balance right, I recall a young footballer who picked up an extremely drunk girl, took her back to a hotel room, and thoughtfully phoned his friend, footballer Chedwyn Evans to join in , which he did and enthusiastically raped her. [The older Afghan phoned his friend to come and join in, which he did, hence this reference]
Evans was convicted of rape, the defence hinged on whether the girl was too drunk to give consent. He served half his sentence; later though an appeal, funded by his fiancee's father, resting on the girl's sexual history, the sentence was quashed. The girl's name was released illegally, she was hounded and traduced and her life ruined.
Ched Evans is still playing football for Fleetwood Town; his fiancee married him, because she was able to overlook 'his 'cheating.' A charming couple.

The girl in this migrant case was drinking vodka, and this may well be used when these Afghans appeal their sentence.

Spot on TerriBull

TerriBull an excellent post, I agree with your every word.

I don't get the anger about the finger being pointed at foreign abusers, here courtesy of the tax payer, as opposed to a British sexual abusers and criminals. Of course such incidents cause the same horror. Their mugshots would be all over the media too and rightly so. Joseph McCann, remember him? someone let him out of prison early and then he went on a massive spree of kidnap and rape. It was all over the papers, just one horrific example. I've also read exposes of men who go abroad to have sex with children Gary Glitter being the most infamous and they deserve all the negative publicity about their disgusting crimes. The elephant in the room that is being ignored in instances such as this latest case, are the two young men are here seeking asylum, they want to stay in this country and yet they have committed a heinous crime. Of course we will always will have in our midst, sexual abusers,criminals, murderers who are British nationals, their DNA has nothing to do with it, they will come under the umbrella of "British" because that's their nationality, they would hold a British passport, so on and so forth. Only one of my grandparents is British through and through, many of us are a mixture of different races and ethnic groups, that's a massive side issue. Yes we have our people who behave badly both here and abroad, and they sometimes drag us down into the mire as how foreigners frame us as a nation. However, time and time again we have young men seeking asylum in this country who carry out criminal acts, surely the anger should be directed at them, firstly for what this poor child has suffered and then for abusing the laws of their host country and finally for besmirching their fellow Afghans (in this case) by their behaviour. I've mentioned this before, because I know the town well, Bournemouth has three asylum hotels, one right opposite a 6th form college and a disproportionate number of the men from those hotels are awaiting criminal trials. The latest case I read about, a woman dragged into woodland and raped by one of them on Bonfire night, she wasn't the first that suffered that fate since these hotels have been open another was raped in a public toilet. Not too far from me is a Sheraton hotel close to Gatwick housing asylum seekers. How many would such a hotel house I couldn't say, but two cases that have been in the news, both local and national, One Iraqi for stalking a young girl on to a train and then forcing himself on her asking for sex. Another grabbing women in intimate places. His defence when he went to court, he didn't know such behaviour wasn't socially acceptable here and he got a suspended sentence, the three women who were assaulted were gutted with the outcome. He didn't know grabbing a woman round the crotch area isn't acceptable, what lame load of spurious crap is that Should this not be reported, should those women just shrug it off and shut up about it, would you if it happened to your younger self, your daughter, your granddaughter ? There are cultural differences as to how "SOME" relate to women that is the problem, it's not to say all their fellow asylum seekers are going to behave in that way anymore than British football hooligans represent every football fan who goes abroad. Certain demographics are over represented in sexual assaults. I believe in Germany when they saw an upsurge in female assaults by asylum seekers they sought to educate the young man coming there in how they should behave towards girls and women and to know in no uncertain terms that to carry out a sexual assault will automatically forfeit the right to stay here. Perhaps that approach should be adopted. I sincerely hope when these two young men, one looked positively baby faced, are deported without further ado of umpteen appeals when they come out of prison. In the meantime spare a thought for the young 15 year old who has developed extreme anxiety, rather than the two young men who just used her for their own gratification.

Boz

Sago

BlueBelle

I ve never ever seen a headline …..
White Englishman rapes child Yes it happens daily

It probably does but the number of sexual crimes committed by immigrants/asylum seekers is disproportionate.

I don't know whether this has been previously discussed but I believe there is an expectation of "easy- going" sexual availability in Western Cultures. They think girls are up for grabs; not true of course.
I am not condoning rape; just trying to work out why.

This, exactly this!

I tried to raise this in my thread on the wearing of the burka.

An Asian journalist suggested that because men come from countries where women are covered they see Western dress as a signal that a woman/girl is available.

I also wonder if most sex in these countries is rape, men have little or no respect for women.

It’s no wonder we have a problem.

Wyllow3

AGAA4

Nobody excuses rape by anybody but rape happens regularly to young girls often in their own homes. Rape often goes unreported.
This thread is another 'hate' fest this time on immigrants.

Absolutely, this from the start seemed to me clearly to be the intention of this thread.

So do you think this should not be discussed?

What do you think other, decent refugees think of this?

AGAA4

Nobody excuses rape by anybody but rape happens regularly to young girls often in their own homes. Rape often goes unreported.
This thread is another 'hate' fest this time on immigrants.

There is no defence.
If these two are 'asylum seekers, seeking refuge and protection in this country but instead brought fear and the violation of a young girl to our streets.

There is no defence and to suggest this happens here anyway is disingenuous.

They do not deserve safety and protection here.
They give other true asylum seekers a bad name.

AGAA4

Nobody excuses rape by anybody but rape happens regularly to young girls often in their own homes. Rape often goes unreported.
This thread is another 'hate' fest this time on immigrants.

Absolutely, this from the start seemed to me clearly to be the intention of this thread.

I read that the older one has already been given deportation papers, Witzend but assume that would come into effect later.
We will have to wait to see...

Nobody excuses rape by anybody but rape happens regularly to young girls often in their own homes. Rape often goes unreported.
This thread is another 'hate' fest this time on immigrants.

Maybe Boz - but alcohol doesn't help either.

It costs a fortune to keep anyone in prison, and our jails are full to bursting anyway. IMO they should be deported straightaway, no question.

Sago

BlueBelle

I ve never ever seen a headline …..
White Englishman rapes child Yes it happens daily

It probably does but the number of sexual crimes committed by immigrants/asylum seekers is disproportionate.

I don't know whether this has been previously discussed but I believe there is an expectation of "easy- going" sexual availability in Western Cultures. They think girls are up for grabs; not true of course.
I am not condoning rape; just trying to work out why.

Thanks for explaining that it came from the Telegraph, eazybee.

I have been able to look this up now and there was no mention of how Israr Niazal got here in the court records, even though that is in the Telegraph.

The court record only provides his arrival in November 2024 and status as an unaccompanied child asylum seeker...

Presumably that's where Primrose found this info then - and turned their (assumed) method of getting here into a new thread title.
Mystery solved!

Dreadful, dreadful, dreadful. I am finding it very difficult to keep hearing about these horrific crimes being committed by people who should not be residing in this country. Anybody even trying to 'justify' as to why they should be here should give their heads a really good wobble. This is my opinion and while ever we have people even remotely attempting to justify them are part of the problem. I wish they would think!!!!!

The Telegraph headline says"Small-boat asylum seekers raped girl, 15."
They both crossed the Channel as unaccompanied minors.

Nit-picking over terminology has little to do with the seriousness of their crime, and the fact that feral teenagers living in taxpayer -funded accommodation are allowed to roam free, to the danger of residents.
Their barristers, (who pays?) attempted to prevent their identity being revealed , 'because it could lead to widespread public disorder.'
Fortunately the Judge disagreed.
Niazal, the younger of the two, is awaiting the outcome of his asylum claim.

Words do NOT fail me, but I do not particularly want my post deleted.

BlueBelle

Who the ‘eff’ are British People Sarnia
oh do you mean the ones that go to live abroad and expect ‘English breakfast’ and ‘English beer’ and talk very loudly so people can understand them, or the ones that go to Vietnam and rape young children or get child brides or is the ones that used to conquer countries and leave the locals to starve My goodness we have so much to be proud of being British haven't we? The aborigines, the Maoris the Zulus shall I go on ? is it those British people we want to preserve our heritage for ?

ahh yes we are all British through and through aren’t we ? have you ever done your DNA I bet you ve got all sorts of blood running through your veins I know I have
I m going before I get angry

None of your post excuses the vile individuals who have raped a 15yr old child, and changed her life irrevocably.

Cue for reading an article about this - and she was with "friends" when they dragged her away. Cue for "with friends like that - who needs enemies?" and that's her mind messed with in more ways than one (ie because they didn't fly at the men attacking their "friend" and protect her).

Not a good precursor to adult life for her for sure....

BlueBelle

Who the ‘eff’ are British People Sarnia
oh do you mean the ones that go to live abroad and expect ‘English breakfast’ and ‘English beer’ and talk very loudly so people can understand them, or the ones that go to Vietnam and rape young children or get child brides or is the ones that used to conquer countries and leave the locals to starve My goodness we have so much to be proud of being British haven't we? The aborigines, the Maoris the Zulus shall I go on ? is it those British people we want to preserve our heritage for ?

ahh yes we are all British through and through aren’t we ? have you ever done your DNA I bet you ve got all sorts of blood running through your veins I know I have
I m going before I get angry

Good post.

That's 2 more rapes than we otherwise would have had. Send these offenders back from whence they came. We do not want or need people like that.

Exactly GrannyGravy , it IS irrelevant!

That is exactly why I want to know!
Did you read YOUR thread title Primrose?

2 boat people Afghans jailed for raping 15 year old girl

...and as I explained earlier - it was said in court that one of them arrived by boat. It was not said how the other boy got here.

Primrose53

We should not be allowing undocumented young men into our country. We know nothing about them and they are of no benefit to our country. We have enough of our own wrong ‘uns without taking more in. It is costing us millions to keep them in prisons.

I am also appalled by the crime.

But I do believe also that we cannot tar all with the same brush, and it's not actually true to say they are of no benefit to our country. We need to look at them as individuals. some have a great deal to give us

A little look at this page, picks out some examples

www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=boat+migrants+who+have+gone+onto+good+jobs+and+lives&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

We need a very rigorous assessment process, we are still talking the backlog

but one problem remains - how can we know/assess which young arrival will prove to commit such a heinous crime, any more than a young home grown citizen, unless there is known "previous". this goes for other offences, sadly, the big ones in the news where there were no "priors", from a variety of backgrounds.

Returning people is indeed a thorny issue and has always been. having been a "door knocker" for a political party,

I am so aware that most people don't realise the difficulty in "returning" people - they assume it's a governmental/party politics weakness.

I'll give you an example "send the boat people back to France where they came from"

I always ask them to consider - supposing a load of boat people were dumped back on UK shores by another country, or had aeroplanes landing on airstrips dumping people without our permission - quite rightly, we wouldnt stand for it.

Possibly it needs to be taken up viguously on an international basis, but you'll still get rogue countries who simply refuse to take anyone back

NotSpaghetti

pably15,
As I said, we don't know how the younger one got here.

It was Robert Holt, speaking for and about Jahanzeb who said the teenager had spent nine months travelling from Afghanistan to the UK, eventually arriving in British waters on a small boat.

I am appalled by their actions here but nevertheless have found nothing to say that Niazal came on a small boat... he may well have done - but I'd like to know.

Why is it so important to you how he got here?

Most links are behind paywalls but it was said in court he arrived by boat.