Hospital patients being treated in corridors

Wes Streeting seems more focused on replacing Keir Starmer than improving the NHS.

It is the same here in Australia. We have a large private sector as well as the public hospitals. No difference. If they try to tell you it would be better if you had to pay, ignore them ! Too many people, too few staff, too few beds.The only difference between public and private are the meals and the rooms - better food and surroundings in private but exactly the same medical care.

If King Charles had to be treated in a hospital corridor after a 12 hour wait we might see some improvement in the NHS but I'm not holding my breath.

After the birth of my first baby I was in an overcrowded ward that had been closed to children when they were all moved into a new wing of the hospital. It was noisy with two toilets and one bath for 24 of us. The food was awful. I had my second baby at home in a nice environment with good food and quiet for me and baby to rest. No contest which was better but in the 70s home births weren't popular and I had to fight to get it.

theworriedwell

NotSpaghetti

CariadAgain presumably the population has grown but the bed spaces have not?

Things change, I had an oral operation when I was a teenager, DD had it as a day case. I was in hospital for eight days after a straightforward delivery of my first baby, DD and DDiL were both in for two nights. My son had eye surgery and he was in for three nights one night before op and two after. Same procedure now in the same hospital is a day case and child only moved to a ward if they are unwell after the OP.

Obviously that hasn't resulted in lots of spare beds but I think we often were kept in longer than necessary in the past.

But, on the other hand, I would see part of the point of keeping someone in hospital for a reasonable length of time being to check everything is healing up okay, ensure people have a chance to "rest up" a bit afterwards (I'm assuming people didn't get their sleep disturbed in the past? - as I know they do now when in hospital!).

Never had/never wanted children - but I would agree with a (first-time at any rate) mother having a week or so in afterwards. After all - their body has just gone through 9 months pregnancy and then giving birth afterwards and childcare is likely to be something very new to them (ie they'd surely be looking for help in how to do things).

When I packed myself back out of hospital a couple of hours after an operation - it was because it had been only a minor operation/I'd taken a booster of all sorts of "helpful for operation recovery" supplements beforehand and I'd taken one disgusted look at watching a cleaner use a dirty mop to desultorily partially clean a floor. That and I had lost trust in the staff when they had a row with me even before the operation (ie I'd decided on a pre-med tablet - rather than pre-med injection - and had to have a row to get my choice!). So it was my decision (not theirs) to leave as soon as I'd fully come round from the anaesthetic...rather than stay overnight (as they had planned on). Because I didn't trust them by then (and yep...I found out they had infected me with summat or other whilst I was in there!!!!!! Think it was staphyloccocus aureus??).

NotSpaghetti

CariadAgain presumably the population has grown but the bed spaces have not?

Things change, I had an oral operation when I was a teenager, DD had it as a day case. I was in hospital for eight days after a straightforward delivery of my first baby, DD and DDiL were both in for two nights. My son had eye surgery and he was in for three nights one night before op and two after. Same procedure now in the same hospital is a day case and child only moved to a ward if they are unwell after the OP.

Obviously that hasn't resulted in lots of spare beds but I think we often were kept in longer than necessary in the past.

NotSpaghetti

*Cadenza*,
I have just checked the figures as I heard a virologist talking about them earlier today -

The vaccine is actually around 60% to 66% effective at preventing hospital attendance specifically from the dominant A(H3N2) virus.

The lower figure (30% to 40%) is the overall effectiveness against any circulating Influenza.

The (small but live) vaccine given to children is more effective (70%+ I think) - but this is from memory -I haven't checked this.

Meanwhile less than half of NHS staff are vaccinated.

Cadenza,
I have just checked the figures as I heard a virologist talking about them earlier today -

The vaccine is actually around 60% to 66% effective at preventing hospital attendance specifically from the dominant A(H3N2) virus.

The lower figure (30% to 40%) is the overall effectiveness against any circulating Influenza.

The (small but live) vaccine given to children is more effective (70%+ I think) - but this is from memory -I haven't checked this.

CariadAgain presumably the population has grown but the bed spaces have not?

On that front - re A & E waiting times......and I found out how to see what their waiting times are the other day (ie NHSQuicker.co.uk).

But I could only see what was what for Devon area. I couldn't see for the whole of the country. Yet I've just seen a screenshot up for one of the Welsh hospitals. So at least some more of the country must have some equivalent app (yep....probably their own equivalent one....rather than NHSQuicker having the whole country to make life easier for us all). I couldnt see what the title/location of that one was.

Does anyone know how to access this "wait at A & E" info. for the whole of the country please - or, if they've split it up, then for English NHS and Welsh NHS (not forgetting Scottish etc).

I think we all know of people who turn up at A&%E with relatively -or even very- minor complaints which could have been dealt with by a GP , practice nurse or even pharmacist , with referral up the chain if necessary. But if you can’t see your GP until two weeks on Tuesday and then only for a phone call, of course you’re going to seek treatment at an A&E department
. If only people would look at “what it says on the tin” - Accident and Emergency not a Saturday night doctor because you couldn’t be bothered to seek attention during the week.
I feel desperately sorry for A&E staff and , for the genuine patients and the paramedics.
The first contact needs to be improved, more triage turning trivial cases away or to a GP, more “walk-in centres, and incidentally, no more than one person accompanying a patient. In the days when Paw used to be a bit of a regular (!) sometimes there would be whole extended families clogging up the waiting areas and adding to the general noise and hubbub.
PS 11 year old GD yesterday at 3.45 am having been taken to children’s A&E at 8.30 on Wednesday evening from her Gymnastics club with a dislocated kneecap.
I suppose 6 hours is quite good by the standards of today, but honestly, I could weep.

CariadAgain

Shocking that - Allira. "Earmarked for management" indeed. Guess that was a case of "Too many chiefs and not enough Indians" and being regarded as a "perk for those who got to a certain grade" regardless of objective need (or otherwise).

Wrong to put staff ahead of patients like that. After all - a patient needs their hospital bed....but in this day and age of so many still "working" from home one would have thought there might be more leeway....and one does get suspicious of just how many "management" are actually needed....

It was many years ago, CariadAgain but seemed to be the new way of things.

Wyllow3

If more people had bothered to have their flu jabs?

Of course we need better, everybody feels that.

Then you hear on the news as in lunchtime today that NATO wants us to spend 5% of our total resources on war/protection preparation....(that is actually higher than the Cold War period, where it was 4% - until we all get used to the idea that we have to pay more, there will always be this conflict on the resources available,

although there is clearly room for improvement in using the NHS resources we have.

Meanwhile I'm looking at my rainbow mug and being thankful we have what we have got.

At best the flu jab reduces the chance of hospitalisation by 30 percent. It's not a get out of jail card. Many of the admissions will have been vaccinated.

Shocking that - Allira. "Earmarked for management" indeed. Guess that was a case of "Too many chiefs and not enough Indians" and being regarded as a "perk for those who got to a certain grade" regardless of objective need (or otherwise).

Wrong to put staff ahead of patients like that. After all - a patient needs their hospital bed....but in this day and age of so many still "working" from home one would have thought there might be more leeway....and one does get suspicious of just how many "management" are actually needed....

My experience of hospital corridor treatment when my husband was admitted earlier this year wasn't fine. Listening to neighbours medical details, them listening to my husband's. Using a bottle with a screen that provided little privacy, having to move my chair every time someone wanted to get by, no rest for 20 hours. No it wasn't fine at all and we shouldn't kid ourselves this is acceptable.

As far as I know - we've got an inadequate number of beds throughout the country (ie throughout Britain) and have read about them taking beds away/mothballing wards/etc. and thought "But that's crazy...".
I remember spending some time in hospital in the early 2000s and Sister saying how desperately they needed more rooms for patients but the unused rooms further along the corridor were earmarked for Management. She had asked if their department could have them for patients as they were in desperate need but was told, very firmly, No.

NotSpaghetti

The current crisis of corridor care is a symptom of severe bed capacity reductions over four or more decades, coupled with a major failure in social and community care, which prevents the remaining beds from being freed up.

I just looked up the difference between the mid 1980s and now -

Significantly more acute hospital beds relative to the population... Since 1988, the number of general and acute care beds in England has fallen by around 44%.

The UK now has one of the lowest bed counts per head of population among wealthy nations (e.g., about 2.4 beds per 1,000 people, compared to about 4 in most of Europe

We all know why the corridors are being used - we need to know how to roll this particular clock back!

Do you know why (to put it more accurately "What excuse was used?") for the reduction in hospital beds over recent years. Given that it's so illogical to say "A higher population means less hospital beds to be provided for them" - when it's obvious to all of us that it's a case of "A steadily increasing population means more beds are needed than we used to have". I certainly know someone who goes apopletic any time he remembers that Mark Drakeford (last leader of the Welsh Assembly/Senedd) would then go on to state that we have too many beds here in Wales!!! As far as I know - we've got an inadequate number of beds throughout the country (ie throughout Britain) and have read about them taking beds away/mothballing wards/etc. and thought "But that's crazy...".

In August my son was put in a corridor on a bed. He was on a drip and very uncomfortable. There was no pillow on the bed and we asked for one and it was promised but never turned up.

It was very noisy and narrow and staff were walking past all the time. He eventually got moved on to a 6 bedded bay.

When I started nursing in the seventies on nightingale wards when full we nursed patients down middle of ward so full hospitals even back then .

If more people had bothered to have their flu jabs?

Of course we need better, everybody feels that.

Then you hear on the news as in lunchtime today that NATO wants us to spend 5% of our total resources on war/protection preparation....(that is actually higher than the Cold War period, where it was 4% - until we all get used to the idea that we have to pay more, there will always be this conflict on the resources available,

although there is clearly room for improvement in using the NHS resources we have.

Meanwhile I'm looking at my rainbow mug and being thankful we have what we have got.

My Mum was stuck in a corridor in November 1999. She'd had a stroke and later died. Haven't moved on much have we.

Not many of us are being humble and thankful, more like, thanking someone pleasantly who is doing their best to help in very difficult circumstances; it's called 'good manners!' My lovely granddaughter WhatsApp t me this morning reassuring us that she was 'soldiering on. Hopefully someone may say thank you to her!

The current crisis of corridor care is a symptom of severe bed capacity reductions over four or more decades, coupled with a major failure in social and community care, which prevents the remaining beds from being freed up.

I just looked up the difference between the mid 1980s and now -

Significantly more acute hospital beds relative to the population... Since 1988, the number of general and acute care beds in England has fallen by around 44%.

The UK now has one of the lowest bed counts per head of population among wealthy nations (e.g., about 2.4 beds per 1,000 people, compared to about 4 in most of Europe

We all know why the corridors are being used - we need to know how to roll this particular clock back!

This is from February 2024:

We shouldn’t get comfortable with corridor ‘care’

www.health.org.uk/features-and-opinion/blogs/we-shouldn-t-get-comfortable-with-corridor-care#:~:text=This%20blog%20is%20with%20contributions,Trolley%20waits%20are%20also%20increasing.

Extracts:
For staff, there is consistent evidence that this practice leads to lower morale and poorer mental health outcomes in the workplace. It also impacts their ability to care for patients, as staff working in corridors don’t have direct access to – or room to use – routine equipment such as observation machines and patient hoists.

For patients and their families, the experience can be traumatising. Patients can feel invisible out of the sight of staff. The physical environment is distressing, with harsh lighting, little to no privacy and difficulty accessing basic needs such as water or even a toilet. As such spaces are not designed to accommodate people for long periods of time, families are left standing for hours, unable to leave their relative due to fears they will be alone or forgotten. As patients being treated in corridors are surplus to safe-staffing numbers, they are experiencing delays to their care, creating a risk to patient safety. Furthermore, patient confidentiality and privacy are near impossible to maintain in public spaces, and concerns around data are not to be ignored.

Corridor care was scarcely seen in practice a few years ago, so it certainly is not inevitable. No patient can be comfortable in a corridor – nor should staff or policymakers get comfy while this practice occurs on their watch.

No definitely not. However, my husband was treated and cured. The aftercare was brilliant too.