The next doctors’ strike

GrannyGravy13

foxie48

"In 2022 there were 8,549 applications for 4,137 available posts but there was a 39.6% on-year increase in applications from 2024 (15,036 places) compared to just 4.4% more available training posts." This is for GP training places.

How many of those applications were from non UK trained doctors?

I heard on the radio yesterday (Jeremy Vine) that approximately 1/4 - 1/3 of all applicants were from overseas doctors.

We really should prioritise UK trained doctors over and above all others.

Exactly this

I just asked that specific question in relation to GP trainees to AI GrannyGravy13

‘In 2023, 52% of GP training places in the UK were filled by non-UK graduates, also referred to as International Medical Graduates (IMGs). This figure has been rising significantly in recent years.
The proportion of non-UK graduates in GP specialty training has increased substantially, growing by 15 percentage points from 41% in 2019 to 56% in 2023. This is almost double the average proportion of non-UK graduates across all other medical specialties, which stood at 27% in 2023.
This high proportion of overseas doctors in training highlights the UK's reliance on international recruitment to address its GP workforce shortages. ‘

I think that must be why there is a disparity between my daughter’s friend’s experience and the training place application stats.

DSis taken to hospital in intense pain last night. Assessed, told she needs an op and sent home with morphine because no wards and even the corridors are full and the doctors are on strike.

I have a lot of sympathy with the resident doctors, demands on jobs but not on pay.

I understand that the offer put forward by Streeting was to prioritise UK based doctors and to increase training posts. Also to refund/defray some of the expensive examination fees which they have to incur to progress.

However I dont have sympathey with the pay demands which sound greedy. They were awarded a good pay rise last year. The pay of many workers has fallen in comparative terms since 2009. There is not the money to give everyone a raise. What about other groups in the NHS who are in a similar position?

That's dreadful, Mollygo. Although I think resident doctors have a strong case I don't support this latest strike.

Mollygo

DSis taken to hospital in intense pain last night. Assessed, told she needs an op and sent home with morphine because no wards and even the corridors are full and the doctors are on strike.

Shocking, Mollygo!
I hope she gets her operation as soon as possible.
The situation you describe does not surprise me.
Resident doctors are not on strike here but what is happening in hospitals seems to be the norm here anyway, although it may have improved recently, as they have re-opened one A&E which was downgraded some time ago to a MIU. Whether they have the staff for the department is another matter as it does not deal with strokes, heart attacks, major trauma etc.

I have no sympathy with the latest strike either.

The 'next' doctors' strike looks like it will be in Scotland. I wonder how the SNP will respond.

Predictably they'll blame Westminster

They received a 22% pay rise last year, and an above inflation pay rise this year, but still want more. I think like the police and armed forces, doctors should be banned from going on strike.

Mollygo

DSis taken to hospital in intense pain last night. Assessed, told she needs an op and sent home with morphine because no wards and even the corridors are full and the doctors are on strike.

Frightening for D sis.
How soon is the operation needed?

They (the SNP) probably will blame the Sassanachs but the NHS is devolved.

Thanks for asking Wyllow3
Re Sis. They called her back to the hospital the following morning. I sat with her and listened to a doctor telling her that she needs an op, but since the pain can be controlled by painkillers, the op comes under elective surgery, i.e. it will improve her quality of life but isn’t classed as urgent.
He assured her that she will be added to the list but she would understand that the state of the NHS including the doctors’ strikes meant they can’t give her a date right now.
If the pain becomes intense again in the mean time, she must get in touch with the hospital.

I feel sorry for the doctors who take up the slack and will also have to deal with understandably fed up patients.

A relative was in hospital at the time of a doctor’s strike and I was pleasantly surprised by the female doctor who had refused to strike. Her words - I would never go on strike. Her opinion was that the hospital had managed without junior doctors (as they were called then) and patients were being seen by experienced doctors. An interesting perspective I thought.

I had a serious accident on a Monday morning at 11.00 a.m.during the strike in January 2024. An ambulance arrived very quickly. They said I was the first patient that they were taking to hospital that morning as it had been much quieter than usual. There were no ambulances parked up and I went straight into resus and I was seen immediately by a consultant who said A&E had been much quieter during the strike. Once I was stabilised with fluids and later a blood transfusion I went into X ray and the MRI scanner, no one seemed to be waiting. I saw a consultant trauma specialist and was moved to the HDU on a trauma ward. It seems that when there is a strike the pressure on the NHS reduces!

Just as an aside, Resident doctors can have 10 years experience or even more and the more junior ones, in terms of experience, always work under the direction of the more senior resident doctors who do the bulk of the training. My DD is a senior registrar, basically one step away from consultant, she's been a qualified doctor for 9 years, I think she'd be most insulted to be described as not an "experienced" doctor particularly as when she's doing nights and on call she's usually the most experienced doctor on the premises! fwiw she is not on strike because she doesn't work in England but she does say that morale is rock bottom!

Without insulting your own daughter foxie48, I think the doctor in my example was 3 years away from consultancy level. There’s so much to learn in medicine that coming straight from medical school is only the beginning of a long training process. It costs the NHS a small fortune to train doctors.

We need doctors, pure and simple. We need the NHS. We need to make up the losses incurred during austerity and the Tory Governments. I don't care where my doctors come from as long as they knowledgeable and skilled. I don't want them to be exhausted from working too many hours and not getting enough sleep as well as studying for more expensive exams to keep up their practice that enables them to give the best care.
I want UK born people to feel that caring for others in the public sector is something they can get support with, and they need the encouragement to do so. Many give up because years of studying, taking out massive loans, not having the opportunities to buy a decent home or even enjoy a decent standard of living.
Although I don't agree with putting patient care at risk, I'm afraid nothing will improve until people grasp the reality of how and why the NHS relies on overseas workers.

keepingquiet

We need doctors, pure and simple. We need the NHS. We need to make up the losses incurred during austerity and the Tory Governments. I don't care where my doctors come from as long as they knowledgeable and skilled. I don't want them to be exhausted from working too many hours and not getting enough sleep as well as studying for more expensive exams to keep up their practice that enables them to give the best care.
I want UK born people to feel that caring for others in the public sector is something they can get support with, and they need the encouragement to do so. Many give up because years of studying, taking out massive loans, not having the opportunities to buy a decent home or even enjoy a decent standard of living.
Although I don't agree with putting patient care at risk, I'm afraid nothing will improve until people grasp the reality of how and why the NHS relies on overseas workers.

But the UK doesn't need to rely on so many overseas doctors, it chooses to and the previous Governments have perpetuated it. I don't mind who treats me but I do want to understand what my Doctors are saying, Recently I have been treated by a Russian and Spaniard. Lovely Doctors but so difficult to comprehend and both needing very specific answers to get the correct treatment. The level of English required doesn't seem to take in accent! With every letter being pronounced by the Spanish speaking Dr, it was like a foreign language and as it was a cognitive test where I had to repeat sentences after her or write down what she said, it would have made great comedy!
I do agree that people don't understand how things work in the NHS and I have been astonished since my eyes have been opened.

In my area, the more expensive houses have a good proportion of medical consultants buying them. So I conclude that it is a profession which pays well after about 8 to 10 years from graduation? This is not necessarily true for all graduates - engineers and research scientists are equally important to this country too.

It’s not true for all medical graduates either ronib, only a small proportion of them ever become consultants?

"Without insulting your own daughter foxie48, I think the doctor in my example was 3 years away from consultancy level." Ronib
Why would this comment insult my daughter? I've no doubt the doctor in question was reassuring her patient, which is what doctors tend to do. the doctor in question may not be a member of the BMA and therefore would have been required to work.

ronib

In my area, the more expensive houses have a good proportion of medical consultants buying them. So I conclude that it is a profession which pays well after about 8 to 10 years from graduation? This is not necessarily true for all graduates - engineers and research scientists are equally important to this country too.

I think a lot of Consultants do Private work to add to their income where they can earn much better money. Consultants also do research too and Junior Doctors also get further by doing it too.

I think I struggle to understand why hospital consultants with some research papers are on in excess of £120k a year whilst a senior research fellow clocks in at £50k……. Especially if pushing boundaries in their specialism.

I don't know any poor doctors and I know three. All living very comfortable lives and one is in Australia as I speak. The strikes are a disgrace.