The next doctors’ strike

The pay and the training issues can all be traced back to decisions made by the previous government and it is completely erroneous to suggest the BMA has anything to do with it. It was in fact the doctors that pointed out to the previous government that increasing the numbers going into graduate medical training had to be matched with expanding specialist training routes rather than employing foreign trained doctors. The conservative government ignored them because employing foreign trained doctors was a cheaper option.

Many others have been affected by frozen pay and below inflationary rises.

Oh, thanks for that info Casdon.

Calendargirl

Surely when they decide to train to be doctors, they know what the pay scales will be in the future?

Or have they no idea what they will be earning when they qualify?

No, as those who are resident doctors now started training at least seven or eight years ago, before the pay differential was formed through years of frozen or below inflation pay rises for the NHS.

Aveline

Was it not the BMA who originally restricted training places? It's a workforce planning issue. Resident doctors who have jobs have had large pay rises and have large contributions to their pensions by their employers in a way that others can only dream of

It started with previous governments as a cost-saving exercise and came unstuck after Brexit. I can't source it officially, but one recent statistic found only 1 in 8 doctors had training places last year. Many are leaving for Australia and New Zealand.
So sad after all that investment.

Surely when they decide to train to be doctors, they know what the pay scales will be in the future?

Or have they no idea what they will be earning when they qualify?

Was it not the BMA who originally restricted training places? It's a workforce planning issue. Resident doctors who have jobs have had large pay rises and have large contributions to their pensions by their employers in a way that others can only dream of

Mamie - No, it is when you give in to bullies.

love0c

This is what happens when you give in to bullies. They always come back!!!!!

This is what happens when previous Governments fail to maintain doctors' rates of pay and encourage the immigration of doctors, rather than prioritising its own students who have been trained in UK medical schools.

This is what happens when you give in to bullies. They always come back!!!!!

The UK is the only country in the world that doesn't prioritise its own students for training places.
This is the F3 year when doctors start specialist training. Instead doctors at a more senior level are moving to the UK to take the places.

I gather it is lack of strategic planning that is the basic cause of the discontent, with regard to training opportunities which doctors need to progress. This discontent has been hijacked by the militant members of the Union.
However, 60% have voted to support this particular strike at a crucial point of the year, therefore although I have some understanding, I have little sympathy.

Initially I was against this latest strike and fairly cross it was going ahead. However, it may be that doctors have legitimate concerns about the way training contracts are organised. The current government seems quite slow to implement changes to training contracts suggesting improvements over 3 years. Presumably this is a money saving exercise?
It’s a bit difficult at the moment to respect either side in this debacle. Bring on robo doc - can’t wait to plug in to a diagnostic robot instead of a human…..

I am disgusted by the doctors behaviour. They hada good rise in pay, other things could get sorted out by discussion. Pity they listen to the person leading these actions.

I know that being a junior doctor is very hard work with long hours and many demands because I have a family member in that situation. But to strike and put peoples’ lives at risk ? No. Never.

26% on top of 29%? They've lost my sympathy - greed and more greed.

It simply won't do.

Streeting and Starmer's attempt to use moral persuasion and effectively preparing their alibi for any patient harm is unlikely to cut any ice. They should devise a pay and conditions settlement that gives certainty over, say, a decade and leave the talking to officials. The less Ministers say the better.

At least the government has agreed to look at sorting out the really dreadful situation regarding specialist training. It's been appalling and has meant that resident doctors have been treated very badly, and for many it adds years to the length of time it takes to complete the training, which has a knock on effect with regard to salary.

The train drivers get 35 thousand ayear and still don't turn up on Sundays travelled on a Sunday again recently The doctors should get more than train drivers at least they are likely to turn up I think they should also get more than any MP The MPs don't have to clock their hours or work regular nights

Yes, Health is devolved so different everywhere. Scottish junior doctors are about to ballot I believe, so they won’t take action before Christmas.
It’s the timing of this strike that worries me, when admissions are peaking. I also feel for people awaiting urgent diagnosis who will be left until after New Year because senior doctors will have to cancel clinics so they can manage the inpatients. Not good.

Can I point out that it is doctors working in England that have been balloted. My daughter works in Wales, they have been offered a deal similar to the one offered to the English doctors and I believe it has been accepted. Welsh doctors are on a different contract which generally has paid less than England and their pension arrangements have been less generous.

I think you’re right in saying they have failed to read the room this time Visgirl. However just their cause, striking at a time when there are so many more admissions than normal because of the flu peak is irresponsible.

They are playing their cards just like the Train Drivers did... We need them and this Government will eventually give in.

They have really failed to read the room, no support from the public.

Starmer?

Apparently 60% of the BMA membership voted, so round about half of all members are responsible for the decision. It will be interesting to see how many resident doctors actually strike, and whether those who did not vote to strike will turn up for work or not. Not a happy situation from any point of view.