British Indians still aborting baby girls in UK

The most recent data shows that women of Indian ethnicity who were born and raised in the UK have a birth sex ratio that is perfectly "normal" (roughly 105:100). This suggests that being raised in the UK effectively breaks the cycle of "son preference."

​The skewed ratio (113:100) is concentrated among a very small percentage of mothers as Wyllow3 says - I think it's significant that most were born in India and moved to the UK as adults. Sociologists call this a "Retained Norm" suggesting that recent migrants sometimes "reinforce" traditional values as a way of maintaining cultural identity.

Like Iam64 I think when we chat to more westernised Indian heritage families they are obviously happy to welcome girls.

I agree with those who point out that freedom of choice for women doesn’t mean those choosing to terminate pregnancies have to do so for reasons of which we (as individuals) approve.

I dislike the very idea of aborting female babies just for being female, but I am not particularly in favour of terminating for convenience either. At the same time, I believe that it has to be the woman’s choice, and I would rather allow medical terminations than go back to backstreet abortions and babies being torn from their mothers’ arms for adoption, or to have girls brought into the world as second class citizens. The problem is far more likely to be one of culture and sociology than of religion, I suspect. Catholicism does not prescribe abominations like Magdeleine Laundries, or cruel ‘mother and baby homes’, any more than Hinduism will approve of aborting girls.

I think this has to be approached via education - a properly targeted campaign to address the (no doubt complex) issues with the relevant demographic, which will be fairly specific and small. Clickbait headlines and sensationalist stories never help anyone.

Ohh - morris dancing. All that jingling might have a political significance , better get rid of it. It’s just too British, must be far right. 😉

Kandinsky has a point. when we campaigned for abortion rights the slogan was "every child a wanted child, every mother, a willing mother".

Obviously I don't agree with selectively picking on girls, but believe change comes about best by persuasion and opportunities for women and campaigning within the community than the tone of the O/P.

Kandinsky

This won’t be a popular answer - but better to abort an unwanted pregnancy than bring a child into the world to be hated & possibly abused.

I agree. It is all wrong to abort a beautiful baby but the life it might have may not be worth living. Sad but true. Ignorance is not bliss but a way of life.

This feels like a case where headline framing matters a lot.

Government guidance says abortion solely on grounds of sex is illegal, but the Abortion Act itself is broader and relies on doctors’ clinical judgement. BPAS is pointing to legal ambiguity, not encouraging sex-selective abortion.

Also, claims about this “increasing” seem to rely on indirect statistical inferences rather than direct evidence of intent, and several experts have warned that these interpretations are contested.

Before directing anger at a whole minority community, it’s worth asking whether the data really supports that conclusion, or whether this is being used to provoke outrage rather than improve policy or safeguarding.

Blinko

Henry VIII managed this issue in a number of ways, divorce and execution among them. Medieval.

And he too, as well as the men in this thread, knew nothing about genetics and chromosomes, blame the man, not the woman.

Oreo

Hmm, wonder what any poster dislikes about our own culture here in the UK that is somehow worse than aborting healthy baby girl babies, forced marriages, honour killings or other known ethnic abhorrent practices? Just be glad that our own culture has nothing worse than Morris Dancing.

👏👏👏👏👏

Wyllow3

Iam64

I’ve used three taxis over Christmas, no surprise in our area, the drivers were Muslims whose family came from India or Pakistan.

They were interested in my famiky gatherings, my adult and grandchildren. When I asked about their family, one told me with great pride about his only child, a ten year old girl. The others had three or four children, girls and boys. The girls education definitely seen as important as the boys. Pharmacy or medicine seen as likeky career paths for boys and girls.

I’m not disputing the awful evidence of girl babies and terminations. Of course it’s just wrong on every level. I worked with the Pakistani/Indisn community here over many years. I wasn’t looking through rose tinted specs but my impression was of delight for a healthy baby.
I dislike the arranged marrisges want greater equality. I’m uneasy about the idea of inferior cultures directed at entire communities.

I’m very unimpressed by some of the cultures as demonstrated by some white British people

Absolutely. Continual tarnishing of a whole culture by the behaviour of a minority within that culture, and a refusal to look at " the mote in our own eyes"

What is the mote in our own eye?

I would say to him that what he had said to me was abhorrent to me. As a woman I didn't consider my life lesser in some way than a mans. Tell him that truth. Give him food for thought.

I was told recently by an Indian man I work with that if it’s a girl ‘they flush it out’ but it’s someone who wouldn’t realise how unacceptable that is to say to people here as they were new to the country

I don’t know what to say really

crazyH

How on earth can this happen, in the UK !! I bet it’s fake news. Surely, there’ll be GP monitoring , ante-natal checks etc.
In order to get rid of the female baby, they will, first and foremost, have to know the sex of the child, and this can only be done via a hospital scan.
I don’t know, I am totally at a loss to know how this can happen Btw, I have not read the article…

CrazyH
They won’t be attending any NHS clinics or hospitals.
It’s all done privately.

I worked with someone who had an abortion as being pregnant was going to interfere with a holiday she had booked. Is that any better?

How on earth can this happen, in the UK !! I bet it’s fake news. Surely, there’ll be GP monitoring , ante-natal checks etc.
In order to get rid of the female baby, they will, first and foremost, have to know the sex of the child, and this can only be done via a hospital scan.
I don’t know, I am totally at a loss to know how this can happen Btw, I have not read the article…

Oreo

And I don’t think that some cultures are changing fast enough unfortunately.

If you read Mumsnet it seems that boys aren't wanted. The disappointment about having a son is awful. Are we really that different?

I remember when I had my second son the midwife said she'd just delivered a baby girl to a woman who had 12 sons and said she'd carry on till she got a girl. I said those poor little boys, she said that poor little girl, will she live up to her mother's dreams

There's an interesting and comprehensive article in today's Times about the fertility clinics in California that are being used by parents to create the babies that they want by IVF. Seems some Americans are also keen to choose the sex of their child and not for medical reasons.

Maybe you were a perfect prefect?😃

Who's refusing to look at "the mote in our own eyes" Wyllow3?

What is the point of bringing entirely unrelated issues in to a discussion about a specific subject?

Of course we in the UK, as a society, have heinous wrongdoings in our midst. It ALL needs calling out, monitoring, putting a stop to whenever we can. And, thank God, of whatever persuasion, we CAN do those things, we're not muffled and shuffled and silenced.

Do these men know that it is the father who determines the sex of the child?

If not, is it not time that they were told, forcefully, by the midwives?

Oreo

Allira 😆

I see autocorrect changed prefect to perfect!
😁

Hmm, wonder what any poster dislikes about our own culture here in the UK that is somehow worse than aborting healthy baby girl babies, forced marriages, honour killings or other known ethnic abhorrent practices? Just be glad that our own culture has nothing worse than Morris Dancing.

ferry23

Quite apart from it being wrong on so many levels to abort girls - who do they think will go on to give birth to future generations?

Such ignorance and misguided prejudice.

Absolutely!!

Allira 😆

Maremia

This is Gransnet. If some Posters wish to 'extend' the discussion, then so be it.
Unless, of course, Santa has given some of you 'Prefect' badges for Christmas, so that you may dictate the direction of the discussion.

Global warming and major polluters is going a bit beyond stretching the subject of the abortion of baby girls, though.
It's a completely different subject.

I still have my perfect's badge from primary school 😁

Iam64

I’ve used three taxis over Christmas, no surprise in our area, the drivers were Muslims whose family came from India or Pakistan.

They were interested in my famiky gatherings, my adult and grandchildren. When I asked about their family, one told me with great pride about his only child, a ten year old girl. The others had three or four children, girls and boys. The girls education definitely seen as important as the boys. Pharmacy or medicine seen as likeky career paths for boys and girls.

I’m not disputing the awful evidence of girl babies and terminations. Of course it’s just wrong on every level. I worked with the Pakistani/Indisn community here over many years. I wasn’t looking through rose tinted specs but my impression was of delight for a healthy baby.
I dislike the arranged marrisges want greater equality. I’m uneasy about the idea of inferior cultures directed at entire communities.

I’m very unimpressed by some of the cultures as demonstrated by some white British people

Absolutely. Continual tarnishing of a whole culture by the behaviour of a minority within that culture, and a refusal to look at " the mote in our own eyes"