Venezuela air attack

Ronib, Maduro may or may not be a drugs baron, joining other unscrupulous and corrupt leaders around the world,but the question should be is the president of the US allowed to go into another sovereign country and forcibly remove their leader before occupying said country?
Is this to become how leaders worldwide who don’t like another country’s leader are allowed to behave?
Think about that one because those leaders worldwide are watching what Trump has done very closely and taking notes no doubt.

Trump doesn't have any proper plans for the governance of Venezuela. There's 1000's of people with guns in Venezuela, loads of generals with their noses in the money trough and I very much doubt that Trump intends to put permanent boots on the ground. What he's created is a dangerous state of instability and permission to other governments to walk into their neighbouring countries to take what they want. Venezuela could end up with even worse governance than it has now if Trump deals with Maduro's people to cut a deal. It's an absolute mess!

Trump was a bit vague on actual governance

How surprising! He hasn't a clue, has he.

Which has been part of my point since my posts of about 9pm last night.

Europe is weak. In all sorts of ways.

20 years of defence cuts have made it so.
Which is exactly what defence chiefs have been saying for decades.
[Yes I know defence spending has increased a bit. But too late if we are attacked soon[dont think we will be personally, but who knows].

Elegran

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Where are the human rights in Trumps actions?

It really is time and for Europe in particular to recognise that we must begin to de-couple our systems away from the USA, including defence, monetary, AI and related systems etc, and begin to get full independence from a country which is now acting as a colonialist authoritarian towards South America in particular, but its tentacles spread far and wide.

We must absolutely make clear that no one in Europe will tolerate a single USA foot in Greenland.

We simply cannot and won’t do that, not now and not ever I should think.
The US is Europe’s bulwark against China, Russia and Iran and associated countries.

So who is our bulwark against the US? If Trump gets into his disordered mind that Britain is the weak, sharia- dominated country that we are painted by some nitwits MAGA ultra-conservatives, what is to stop him bombing the Uk and carrying off our PM and Cabinet to the US, and planting his choice of "leader" and regime in their place?

Nothing.

Except God.

Elegran

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Where are the human rights in Trumps actions?

It really is time and for Europe in particular to recognise that we must begin to de-couple our systems away from the USA, including defence, monetary, AI and related systems etc, and begin to get full independence from a country which is now acting as a colonialist authoritarian towards South America in particular, but its tentacles spread far and wide.

We must absolutely make clear that no one in Europe will tolerate a single USA foot in Greenland.

We simply cannot and won’t do that, not now and not ever I should think.
The US is Europe’s bulwark against China, Russia and Iran and associated countries.

So who is our bulwark against the US? If Trump gets into his disordered mind that Britain is the weak, sharia- dominated country that we are painted by some nitwits MAGA ultra-conservatives, what is to stop him bombing the Uk and carrying off our PM and Cabinet to the US, and planting his choice of "leader" and regime in their place?

Just what I was thinking this morning. I wonder how many people here would welcome that invasion?

Just to remind everyone, it’s said that there has been interference in our electoral processes by the USA, Russia and China!

ronib

I understood that oil companies were to extract oil which is primarily diesel and can be used as asphalt. Not too sure what the demand is for this type of oil and can it be blended with lighter oil? A number of oil companies will be involved I heard.

Trump was a bit vague on actual governance but there will be a proper transition. If the previous president was a drug baron, I can see only a positive future for Venezuela.

Well. it's interesting, ronib because the US has actually practically ruined Venezuela's oil industry be interfering in its politics for long time, imposing sanctions (which Trump doesn't appear to have lifted until now) because it disapproves of its left anmd right wing governments. Apparently the oil industry's infrastructure is in a very poor state and will need a great deal of investment to rectify.

I have seen comment to the effect that there is a falling demand for the type of oil Venezuela produces (blame those pesky new energy technologies). So it might not be the financial bonanza Trump is expecting. Don't forget, he is NOT a canny business man. Lots of business failures in his past.

I understood that oil companies were to extract oil which is primarily diesel and can be used as asphalt. Not too sure what the demand is for this type of oil and can it be blended with lighter oil? A number of oil companies will be involved I heard.

Trump was a bit vague on actual governance but there will be a proper transition. If the previous president was a drug baron, I can see only a positive future for Venezuela.

Wyllow3

I wasn't referring to to a single post, Maizie, but the many comments and analysis in those 7 pages.

I would have thought that appointing an oil company to "run the country" would speak for itself however. Trump believes in privatising everything possible, so applying it to a country is no great surprise.

Sorry, I thought you were talking about a post you'd made earlier.

As to why, here we go: Sky News:

news.sky.com/story/how-much-oil-does-venezuela-have-and-why-is-donald-trump-so-interested-in-its-reserves-13490116

I wasn't referring to to a single post, Maizie, but the many comments and analysis in those 7 pages.

I would have thought that appointing an oil company to "run the country" would speak for itself however. Trump believes in privatising everything possible, so applying it to a country is no great surprise.

Wyllow3

See upthread.

Where 'upthread' Wyllow?. There are 4 pages to scroll through.

See upthread.

It's an economic move dressed up as righteousness. and won't be the last.It's an economic move dressed up as righteousness. and won't be the last.

And your evidence for this is?

It's an economic move dressed up as righteousness. and won't be the last. As was mentioned up thread, Greenland is on the list.
As you've said, Fallingstar, intervention in Iran will destabilise not just the region, but could turn out to be another disastrous Iraq situation where meddling makes it worse.

There is actually a small but determined movement in Iran (as in women refusing headscarves and similar actions - all should give them the space to develop their own opposition.

^Yes.
Lyse Doucet on the news this morning has echoed your very words, not only with regard to Putin and Ukraine but with regard to China and Taiwan.
It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.^

I think, to a certain extent, the US was the world's policeman. Not any longer.

AGAA4

Trump invading another sovereign country now justifies Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
His primary reason for the invasion was to get Venezuela's oil.

Yes.
Lyse Doucet on the news this morning has echoed your very words, not only with regard to Putin and Ukraine but with regard to China and Taiwan.
It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.
My worry is that Iran could be next. Of course a large number of Iranians want rid of the regime, but will not want the US to wade in militarily and occupy the country.
There is a history already of the US meddling in Iranian politics back when the Shah was in power. And doing this in Iran will destabilise the whole region.

Which leads to another point.

The US being the world's policeman.

I think that ship has sailed?

petra

fancythat

Casdon

They are very wisely keeping their counsel and staying out of it until they understand all the rationale fancythat. Woukd you have them wading in without knowing exactly what lies behind the invasion? I wouldn’t.

I am not meaning diplomacy or talking.

I am meaning military might.

I must be missing something here 🤷‍♀️
Are you seriously suggesting that the uk and Europe wade into a shit storm that has absolutely nothing to do with either of us 🤦🏼‍♀️

No.

I have explained enough at 21.22pm.

My point is, even if we[which includes Europe} wanted to] we dont have the military might against the US.
We are too small, disorganised, lack of money spent on military spending, etc etc

For all our talk in the Uk and Europe, we dont measure up.
No point us thinking we are big when we are now minnows.

Trump invading another sovereign country now justifies Putin's invasion of Ukraine.
His primary reason for the invasion was to get Venezuela's oil.

On BBC News and even with a script to read from, Trump was faltering over his words. I often look at the expressions of those around him and their looks can speak volumes.
As I said earlier and other posters have also mentioned, he is showing signs of following in Joe Biden's footsteps. Without dementia he is a world leader I would prefer to do without, with dementia, he's even more volatile. The UK does not need to get involved in any of this.

20 years ago the US applied sanctions on Venezuela for Human rights violations, these were increased by Obama in 2014 so it not a Trump or Republican issue, it’s a US issue

8 million of the population have left the country because if poverty and repression and Maduro has been providing a haven for drugs cartels. As for attacking shipping, if a high speed power boat is ordered to stop by a warship any sensible boat would comply, if it then tries to out run the warship it can expect to get sunk.

So Maduro had been removed we can now hope that a new moderate government is put in is place and normal life returns to Venezuela, its a rich country and the population should benefit from its wealth.

There are a few other dictators that need removing, starting with Putin who has slaughtered 1 million of his own population and hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians. I guess there won’t be many on this site that would oppose kidnapping Putin, unfortunately that is not possible. Looking back in history removing Hitler would probably have saved many million lives it was tried by his own officers but failed.

“Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) on Saturday called President Trump’s indictment of Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro “hypocritical,” after Trump pardoned former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández last year following his conviction on drug charges.
“If the President grounds his actions on the basis of drug trafficking charges, it is entirely hypocritical in light of his recent pardon of former Honduran President Juan Orlando Hernández who was responsible for bringing more than 400 tons of cocaine in the United States in order to ‘shove the drugs right up the noses of the gringos,'” Pelosi wrote on social platform X.
She added that Hernández “was convicted of the same crime by an American jury and Trump pardoned him.”
What the hell is going on here? And does Trump now think he can do anything anywhere. The thought of him sitting watching armed forces under his command invading another country must make him feel imnotipent.

Farzanah

As for trying to prevent drugs entering a country, because of a pervasive drug problem, it should be considered why a country develops this problem in the first place.
It usually suggests socioeconomic distress and inequality.

It also suggests that the inhabitants of the country into which the drugs are being brought either have too much money (the rich) or too many worries (the poor and the discriminated against)

If no-one bought the drugs, no-one would sell them.

Oreo

Whitewavemark2

Where are the human rights in Trumps actions?

It really is time and for Europe in particular to recognise that we must begin to de-couple our systems away from the USA, including defence, monetary, AI and related systems etc, and begin to get full independence from a country which is now acting as a colonialist authoritarian towards South America in particular, but its tentacles spread far and wide.

We must absolutely make clear that no one in Europe will tolerate a single USA foot in Greenland.

We simply cannot and won’t do that, not now and not ever I should think.
The US is Europe’s bulwark against China, Russia and Iran and associated countries.

So who is our bulwark against the US? If Trump gets into his disordered mind that Britain is the weak, sharia- dominated country that we are painted by some nitwits MAGA ultra-conservatives, what is to stop him bombing the Uk and carrying off our PM and Cabinet to the US, and planting his choice of "leader" and regime in their place?