Is it wrong to identify as something you aren’t?

Anyway, he has now paid the price hasn’t he? Not the fine so much as the shame of it.

Which makes it all the more strange that he wanted the kudos of a military uniform, and an Admiral no less.

He wasn’t a shelf stacker at Tesco in the past Allira and a Public School then an Oxford College seem quite prestigious to me.

Mollygo

^Teacher, taught rowing.^
Well at least that’s a connection with water.

😂😂😂

Wyllow3

Oreo

Of course I don’t ‘have the benefit of a fine art training’ maybe thankfully in this case.

What I think is that gransnetters have a real wealth of both academic and work based and home based knowledge and experience -all as valid as each other -to bring to gransnet. Maybe they come from an SW background. Maybe they have had to care for people all their lives. Maybe they have lived in difficult marriages, or have chosen to live alone.

Some outsiders view Gransnet as "older women gossiping" when in fact we all have long lives that have brought us those experiences to bear on what we are talking about. and sometimes to give super advice and support in the help or AIBU threads. And most of us have at one time or another benefitted from another experiences or qualifications.

So, we generally benefit from that breadth of experience - but apparently not if you happen to disagree personally with what someone has said? Or decide to try and use someone's being abused as a weapon against them? is that what we are really about?

What on earth are you talking about?
I disagree with your attitude that because you admire this man’s art he can go around looking as he does in that pic, dressed as a woman or a girl with a dildo poking out.
Having a background in art or anything else doesn’t in any way explain or ameliorate that dope indulging his fetish in public and at a children’s charity event at that!
All it means is that this is a real case of The Emperor’s New Clothes.

Teacher, taught rowing.
Well at least that’s a connection with water.

Oreo

butterandjam

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he

? No.

He's a retired teacher.

He did have quite a prestigious past.He was a teacher at a well known public school and then went on to be the rowing coach at Christ Church College in Oxford where he was much liked it seems.

Teacher, taught rowing.
Well, not that prestigious!

butterandjam

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he

? No.

He's a retired teacher.

He did have quite a prestigious past.He was a teacher at a well known public school and then went on to be the rowing coach at Christ Church College in Oxford where he was much liked it seems.

Yes we've definitely been "around the houses"

But it did send me upstairs to look out bits and bobs on the- not- the-thread- topic and much enjoyed.

Wyllow3

Poster deflects.

Discuss.

Poster deflects.

The thread has certainly done that, Wyllow!

Man breaks the law by dressing up as a serving Rear Admiral, pleads guilty, is fined £500 and loses whatever reputation he might have had.

Is there a lesson here?
Yes. Don't break the law by wearing the uniform of a member of HM Forces in public - and carrying a sword too.

Don't masquerade as a policeman, doctor, or other public official either.

Clearly a snowbound day..
Advise a heave ho to the gritter thread...

Poster deflects.

Discuss.

Gransnet Loses The Plot.

Discuss

Allira

^So, we generally benefit from that breadth of experience - but apparently not if you happen to disagree personally with what someone has said?^

That's exactly why we may disagree, surely? Because we all have different experience?

Thats actually a complex point. It would seem, on the surface, one cannot argue with that.

Except I've had too many years teaching people to understand conceptual art or just non representational art or encouraging people to express themselves through art, however little experience they have. ...discussing boundaries of what art is, and what makes good or acceptable art, showing people different example to make my point, and have used my own body for work for one piece that went in an international art/textile show.

It depends what we are discussing. If the subject we are discussing - eg, one Grayson Perry work -is being taken out of a whole context, then it does matter if we do or don't have broader knowledge, *because it may or may not offer a completely different context and reason for and understanding of that one work.
One worth being informed about.

Otherthread today for example we have had a poster pointing out that as a Historian (Maizie) she has done detailed research into mining in County Durham, it is valid to at least consider that what she says is of particular value.

If we have someone caring for a DH who has had a serious stroke or cancer, we listen - that person might have something valuable to "hear" if we encounter the same experience. At the moment there is an ongoing discussion on Divorce in later life. Not relevant to many, but of great value to those concerned.

Or the sadness of Estrangement - its accepted that those who have gone through it may have a great deal to offer those who are facing it for the first time.

Or if we are discussing multiculturalism - full of complexities, it matters if we are Christian or Jewish or Muslim, or have worked in Social Work for years in a multi-cultural context.

It informs our opinion, and it helps others see "where we are coming from".

Allira
What any of this has to do with a rather sad man impersonating a high-ranking, serving Royal Naval Officer is beyond me.

It has nothing to do with it per se, but I find it irritating that a man whose pretence causes offence to another man can be taken to court be fined £500 whilst other men who cause offence to women are praised for their artistry or we are told they don’t cause any harm.
That ex teacher wasn’t causing any harm.

Rosie51

Wyllow So Perry could just as easily use his own erect penis poking through the coat and that would be absolutely fine in your opinion? At a charity event for children with cancer? Is that really any different to the man who waggles his penis at young girls in the park, after all he's expressing himself too, and if he identifies as an artist.....?

I've never considered what Grayson Perry produces, nor his provocative behaviour in front of children to be fine art.
However, that is just my opinion.

What any of this has to do with a rather sad man impersonating a high-ranking, serving Royal Naval Officer is beyond me.

So, we generally benefit from that breadth of experience - but apparently not if you happen to disagree personally with what someone has said?

That's exactly why we may disagree, surely? Because we all have different experience?

Oreo

Of course I don’t ‘have the benefit of a fine art training’ maybe thankfully in this case.

What I think is that gransnetters have a real wealth of both academic and work based and home based knowledge and experience -all as valid as each other -to bring to gransnet. Maybe they come from an SW background. Maybe they have had to care for people all their lives. Maybe they have lived in difficult marriages, or have chosen to live alone.

Some outsiders view Gransnet as "older women gossiping" when in fact we all have long lives that have brought us those experiences to bear on what we are talking about. and sometimes to give super advice and support in the help or AIBU threads. And most of us have at one time or another benefitted from another experiences or qualifications.

So, we generally benefit from that breadth of experience - but apparently not if you happen to disagree personally with what someone has said? Or decide to try and use someone's being abused as a weapon against them? is that what we are really about?

Elegran

aonk

Of course people can dress as they choose but not in uniforms which they’re not entitled to. This gives a false impression to others. Imagine what could happen if someone impersonated a police officer or a doctor and a member of the public put their trust in them. Also Carley appeared in the uniform at a Remembrance ceremony which was an insult to veterans, serving officers and their families.

Exactly my point in my post at Fri 09-Jan-26 11:13:28.

A naval uniform identifies a naval officer to anyone who sees it, and the uniform of a rear admiral identifies a high ranking officer whose orders are to be obeyed by any member of the navy who is subordinate to him. Ignoring this man's wearing of the uniform when he is no longer entitled to wear it is creating a precedent which could suggest to a traitor to dress up as a senior officer and order actions that would endanger the security of the country.

Ignoring this man's wearing of the uniform when he is no longer entitled to wear it

He never was entitled to wear it.

A veteran could wear a uniform for a ceremonial occasion but generally would need permission.

Rosie51

butterandjam

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he

? No.

He's a retired teacher.

I think he was well respected for his past career but he was not the naval officer he impersonated, and that was his offence. I imagine he has tarnished his memory forever, silly man.

He was wrong to impersonate, perhaps he didn't understand?

I've no idea job titles of people in the forces.

Shame he wasn’t noticed and complained about by a woman. He may well have got off.
Indeed

No, I do not agree.
What he did was unlawful. Anyone could have reported him, man or woman.

You are conflating two entirely different situations.
As I pointed out, men invading women's spaces and making them feel vulnerable and threatened is an entirely different issue and needs the law to be clarified if necessary and robustly followed.

Rosie51

butterandjam

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he

? No.

He's a retired teacher.

I think he was well respected for his past career but he was not the naval officer he impersonated, and that was his offence. I imagine he has tarnished his memory forever, silly man.

but he was not the naval officer he impersonated
Not just a Naval Officer, a Rear Admiral no less.

silly man. Quite.

Wyllow So Perry could just as easily use his own erect penis poking through the coat and that would be absolutely fine in your opinion? At a charity event for children with cancer? Is that really any different to the man who waggles his penis at young girls in the park, after all he's expressing himself too, and if he identifies as an artist.....?

Ah, I see what you mean by unanswered question Rosie.

My point is that many artists, women and men, have been using their own bodies as art for at least 50 years now, on a huge scale. That's performance artists, as well as photography and paintings. Perry is doing nothing unusual nor particularly transgressive when you see the whole body of work in this field.
It's by no means all around gender transgression, thats only part of it.
There is a whole wonderful body of work by artists who challenge the norms of what is "Beauty". Age, disability, being "fat" - all covered. The cruelties of bodies who have been "used" in one way our another..lots more.

butterandjam

Oreo

I suppose it was a bit of fantasy that went too far.He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he and maybe in retirement he needed to continue to be admired? Am certain he really regrets it, not a big fine really but it’s the shame of it that will haunt him.

He had quite a prestigious past didn’t he

? No.

He's a retired teacher.

I think he was well respected for his past career but he was not the naval officer he impersonated, and that was his offence. I imagine he has tarnished his memory forever, silly man.