Is it wrong to identify as something you aren’t?

Exactly he's stolen nothing. Total waste of police and court time. The people who organise the parade could have told him to stop, posted pictures in the local paper explaining what he was doing. As has been said people knowing what he's doing is the main punishment not the £500 and that would have been achieved.

Then people complain about the police not having time to deal with problems and victims waiting years for courts to deal with things that have happened to them while this is dealt with with.

theworriedwell

dotpocka

stolen valor

I'm not sure it was stolen. If I steal something from you I have it and you dont. Who lost anything?

I think I know whst dotpocka means.
Wearing fake or purchased medals is not stealing as such but it's more subtle than that.

Think the person who has lost the most is Carely.
Yes. Aka Walter Mitty.

Think the person who has lost the most is Carely.

dotpocka

stolen valor

I'm not sure it was stolen. If I steal something from you I have it and you dont. Who lost anything?

stolen valor

Daddima I actually know somebody, who is now in their 70s, who admits to identifying as a cat when they were a child. They were treated by Emanuel Miller (father of Jonathan Miller) who was an eminent child psychiatrist.

mum2three

In this particular case, it was not appropriate and , as the judge stated, an insult to the real heroes. Impersonating a police officer is an offence, though I can quite see how many of us feel tempted at times!
So long as it causes no harm to anyone, I suppose it's acceptable. Pretty pathetic though.

So long as it causes no harm to anyone, I suppose it's acceptable

Obviously not because, as you say, it was the judge who made that comment in a court of law.

It is an offence, unlawful.

Daddima

BlueBelle

What about identifying as a cat ?

I have yet to hear of anyone who has actually encountered a case of this. It’s always a ‘ friend of a friend’, and they swear blind it’s true! One person told me in detail about a girl in her ‘friend’s granddaughter’s class’ who had a litter tray in the classroom.
This ‘identifying as’ business is new, as previously, you either were or you weren’t!

It's quite different, unless you think the other cats were veterans with medals they had earned and could be offended and upset by someone pretending to be Top Cat with fake medals and unifirm.

Yes, I have heard first-hand of a case of a furry , Daddima

In this particular case, it was not appropriate and , as the judge stated, an insult to the real heroes. Impersonating a police officer is an offence, though I can quite see how many of us feel tempted at times!
So long as it causes no harm to anyone, I suppose it's acceptable. Pretty pathetic though.

BlueBelle

What about identifying as a cat ?

I have yet to hear of anyone who has actually encountered a case of this. It’s always a ‘ friend of a friend’, and they swear blind it’s true! One person told me in detail about a girl in her ‘friend’s granddaughter’s class’ who had a litter tray in the classroom.
This ‘identifying as’ business is new, as previously, you either were or you weren’t!

He may have deliberately worn the uniform (and I absolutely understand the annoyance of those who have worked and sacrificed to earn the right to do that)

Not just once but repeatedly. Unlike dressing up in a long gown and tiara, it is unlawful.

If any person not serving in Her Majesty’s Naval or Military Forces wears without Her Majesty’s permission the uniform of any of those forces, or any dress having the appearance or bearing any of the regimental or other distinctive marks of any such uniform, in such a manner or under such circumstances as to be likely to bring contempt upon that uniform, or employs any other person so to wear that uniform or dress, he shall be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding [level 3 on the standard scale], or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding one month.

He is not the only one, there have been a few others in recent years.
No, it did not cause danger to others, it's sad that he needs to do that.

Worrying that such a fantasist was a teacher too.

I could equally ask why people bend over backwards to be punitive, and to decide that they know the motives of others.

He may have deliberately worn the uniform (and I absolutely understand the annoyance of those who have worked and sacrificed to earn the right to do that), but we can't know what lay behind the decision to do so. We may know what drives us as individuals, but it is not reasonable to assume that others are driven by the same motives as we are.

eazybee

Why do people bend over backwards to make excuses for people who set out to deceive? It was deliberate and intentional.

Absolutely 👍

Courts and judges follow sentencing guidelines. This wasn't a crime sufficiently serious within those sentencing guidelines to merit the need for psychology reports. He was fined and awarded costs against him etc as set out in those sentencing guidelines. He will live with his public humiliation for the rest of his life.
👍

LemonJam

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets- but wrongly purchased and wore medals he shouldn't have to appear high ranking. He laid a wreath at a remembrance event on 4 occasions. He pleaded guilty in court. He said in his police interview he did it to feel a sense of belonging and affirmation.

Nobody has suggested, including himself, that what he did was in any way acceptable. It was an affront and disrespectful to those who served their countries and lost their lives. It's not excusing his behaviour by seeking to understand why he behaved as he did however.

Courts and judges follow sentencing guidelines. This wasn't a crime sufficiently serious within those sentencing guidelines to merit the need for psychology reports. He was fined and awarded costs against him etc as set out in those sentencing guidelines. He will live with his public humiliation for the rest of his life.

His crime was different than those who impersonate and deceptively ACT as an impersonating professional, such as carrying out activities as a qualified doctor, nurse, paramedic, pilots, train driver etc as they are putting peoples safety at risk. Or a solicitor or accountant for financial fraud or benefit.

This man laid a wreath and saluted on 4 occasions- nothing more sinister than that. Wrong and hugely disrespectful but I agree with Doodledog he did not do it for "nefarious" reasons ie wickedly.

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets

Really? Another of his fantasies?
No cadet leader would have the rank of Rear Admiral. Did he sew on the rings ad stars himself?

Anyone can lay a wreath, members of the public lay them in memory of loved ones; as a member of the Cadets (Second Lieutenant apparently) he could salute but his Commission was terminated.

I thought the unusual factor in this case is that people who had known Jonathon Carly, when he was a history master at two prestigious private schools and as a rowing coach to an Oxford College all spoke highly and warmly of his abilities and his personality as being warm and pleasant. People who knew him clearly held him in high regard.

Usually people like this are loners who do not make good relations with people and are 'at outs' with the world. I did notice that in among all these encomiums, no one mentioned a partner or spouse, or family. the human persona is a very complex beast.

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

Yes, it's as simple as that. I think the punishment and shame of being so publicly "outed" is as great as the fine and is adequate enough.

Men seem to often find it more difficult to accept an everyday life is "enough" post retirement.

some, as we have seen in the AIBU or chat threads is sometimes needing to be "the boss" " in control" at home to the cost of gransnetters.

What he needs is help in finding a voluntary role that will give him the sense of affirmation and value.

But it was a bizarre choice of role to take and certainly offensive to many.

He was legitimately issued with the uniform when in the cadets- but wrongly purchased and wore medals he shouldn't have to appear high ranking. He laid a wreath at a remembrance event on 4 occasions. He pleaded guilty in court. He said in his police interview he did it to feel a sense of belonging and affirmation.

Nobody has suggested, including himself, that what he did was in any way acceptable. It was an affront and disrespectful to those who served their countries and lost their lives. It's not excusing his behaviour by seeking to understand why he behaved as he did however.

Courts and judges follow sentencing guidelines. This wasn't a crime sufficiently serious within those sentencing guidelines to merit the need for psychology reports. He was fined and awarded costs against him etc as set out in those sentencing guidelines. He will live with his public humiliation for the rest of his life.

His crime was different than those who impersonate and deceptively ACT as an impersonating professional, such as carrying out activities as a qualified doctor, nurse, paramedic, pilots, train driver etc as they are putting peoples safety at risk. Or a solicitor or accountant for financial fraud or benefit.

This man laid a wreath and saluted on 4 occasions- nothing more sinister than that. Wrong and hugely disrespectful but I agree with Doodledog he did not do it for "nefarious" reasons ie wickedly.

Yes it is. I remember neighbours who had endured hell in the wars. What the hell was he doing? Obviously has a mental health problem, well I think so. I think he got off lightly. If he wants to dress up in uniform then put on Community Service overalls and pay back to society.
So glad I don't know him

LemonJam

Jonathan Carley said in his police interview he did it because had wanted a sense of "belonging and affirmation".

There are others who use a similar excuse.

If that's meant for me, I'm not bending over backwards any more than you are. I am trying to understand someone's motives without making judgemental assumptions.

I assume that there will be psychology reports which will do the same, so that if there is any doubt about his motives the benefit of them will be given.

Why do people bend over backwards to make excuses for people who set out to deceive? It was deliberate and intentional.

It does seem sad, rather than nefarious, though. I think that impersonating a police officer and (mis)directing traffic, or interfering with the course of justice is much worse, as, of course, is pretending to be a doctor so you can touch people inappropriately - but turning up at services really amounts to taking up a seat and roleplaying a fantasy. I'm not saying he was right to do it, but it seems more sad than bad, if you see what I mean.

Doodledog

I believe it's legal to call yourself something like Princess Doodle of Dog, so long as you don't use the title to defraud anyone. I'm sure that if I adopted that name and decided to dress in long silk gowns and tiaras I couldn't be arrested for it, even if I got funny looks in Sainsburys. Isn't the classic stereotypical mad person someone who thinks he is Napoleon?

How did this chap get invitations to places where he could genuinely impersonate an Admiral? Aren't they taken from lists of serving (or retired) officers? I could understand a prosecution if he'd tried to captain a ship or something, and I can also understand people being infuriated by his claiming a rank he doesn't hold, but what harm did he actually do?

I don't think he was invited, he just turned up at services etc and people became more and more suspicious. Those who are part of the proceedings ie reading the List of the Fallen, the Exhortation etc, are part of the official party.

Yes, you could call yourself whatever you liked but that wouldn't be dishonouring the fallen and other veterans who earned their medals.

He didn't impersonate an Able Seaman, did he. Oh no, only a Rear Admiral would do!

He must have an inferiority complex and want to make himself seem braver and more important than he actually is.
Sad.

What first alerted me about this "doctor" was when he said "There's no need for you to stay." Most real doctors would be unlikely to want to be left alone with a young girl without a chaperone. I made it very clear that I was staying and it seemed to annoy him.