Fleet of heavily armed US military planes land in England

Cossy

fancythat

Europe is barely strong enough to defend itself[without US help] against Russia. In my opinion.
And that assumes it all acts together[cant see that happening either, at least not in the first instance].

Against the US, no chance.

I think in terms of actual numbers, USA will win hands down, however if all of Europe banded together I do believe it would be a strong and strategic alliance. It’s not just about “number of troops”, look at Ukraine.

I wasnt really going by number of troops.

I am going by technology.

Think of how Ukraine has been able to hold back Russia - the USA has withdrawn most of its help and yet Russia is still not finding it easy.

Europe combined would be able to do the same.

The point is that whether we would like USA help or not - we are not going to be able to rely upon it.

Europe has no choice but to build up its defences and not rely on the USA .

If they come to our aid it would be a bonus, but not seen as a given.

Greenland gets to decide if it accepts a reasonable offer surely? Seems it’s not the first time buying Greenland has been a possibility. Doesn’t America have its history based on buying states?

fancythat

Europe is barely strong enough to defend itself[without US help] against Russia. In my opinion.
And that assumes it all acts together[cant see that happening either, at least not in the first instance].

Against the US, no chance.

I think in terms of actual numbers, USA will win hands down, however if all of Europe banded together I do believe it would be a strong and strategic alliance. It’s not just about “number of troops”, look at Ukraine.

Europe is barely strong enough to defend itself[without US help] against Russia. In my opinion.
And that assumes it all acts together[cant see that happening either, at least not in the first instance].

Against the US, no chance.

fancythat

^Europe knows that combined we make a pretty solid block to Russia^

You dont sound convinced.

Plus what about threats to the Uk from elsewhere?

I’m not sure what you mean.

Am I convinced that the USA can no longer be relied upon? - yes

Am I convinced that Europe as a defensive block could defend itself against Russia? - yes. It wouldn’t be pretty, but what war is?

Threats to U.K. from elsewhere? You need to be more specific. Hopefully Europe has got over its forever war with each other. The EU has done a grand job of ensuring that.
Who else?

ronib

I thought the idea was for Trump to make an offer to buy Greenland? Wonder how much money is on the table?
Greenland may have a phenomenal offer- we don’t know. If outright sale doesn’t happen then leasing it might? Or buying the rights to its minerals?
I don’t see this potential business transaction as a cause for war. At least I hope not.

It’s not part of the USA and neither they nor Denmark wish it to be.

Just like Canada, it’s not for sale.

Whitewavemark2

Europe needs to be on Europe’s sides because make no mistake, Trump will never defend Europe.

We can trade and continue diplomatic relations with the USA but we can never rely on them.

I completely agree, especially given their current leader

Or threats to Europe for that matter.

Which ever way it is sliced and diced, Europe is not strong enough on it's own.

Europe knows that combined we make a pretty solid block to Russia

You dont sound convinced.

Plus what about threats to the Uk from elsewhere?

Empty or not it's a sanctioned vessel.

I thought the idea was for Trump to make an offer to buy Greenland? Wonder how much money is on the table?
Greenland may have a phenomenal offer- we don’t know. If outright sale doesn’t happen then leasing it might? Or buying the rights to its minerals?
I don’t see this potential business transaction as a cause for war. At least I hope not.

fancythat

Are you thinking about what is safest for the Uk?

Yes I am.

Europe and allies will always have more in common with the USA and other western allies but when it comes to defence, we must recognise reality and understand that the USA can no longer be relied on as it could be post war and throughout the Cold War.

Those days have gone.

Europe knows that combined we make a pretty solid block to Russia, and it is time we acted upon this reality, particularly if NATO is impoverished and weakened by USA action.

We must look to Europe and work much closer.

There is no time.

So now what?

Trump says Europe will be changed in 20 years. He has managed to make the USA unrecognizable to its friends in 12 months. Knowing for some time that America is no longer the friend and ally of Europe we must pivot away from the USA. it will take time but there is no going back.

Are you thinking about what is safest for the Uk?

Europe needs to be on Europe’s sides because make no mistake, Trump will never defend Europe.

We can trade and continue diplomatic relations with the USA but we can never rely on them.

Pretty sure I saw a Globemaster myself, day before yesterday.

I felt comforted by it, when I had realised what I had seen.

I have a cold which is muddling my thinking.
Not sure what I will feel about it when my head is clearer.

I think, from a personal point of view, it feels safer to be "on the US side".

I think what Trump has done is wrong behaviour.

Scaremongering. Flexing muscles to make sure we know all about it.

The crunch time is indeed if those places are used to attack Greenland or any of our allies, and the airbases act as a take off point

Thank you that information, GG13, most helpful.

Personally, I think its all a blooming awful situation

SueDonim

I couldn’t say about this alleged arrival of US aircraft but surely generally US bases are needed in the UK as part of the NATO defence system. If we expect the US to defend us, we have to play our part.

Do you think, currently, US would “defend” us?

Oreo

Trump is unlikely to attack Greenland but he may just move more and more military there instead.

IMO, I just don’t think you can bank on this I’m afraid. If Trump was in any way “stable” or a “deep thinker” I’d be inclined to agree, however given his voracity for signing off executive orders at an alarming rate.

Allira

The US has a significant presence here anyway?

Scaremongering?

Maybe, but I’m seriously wondering if the UK should review the US bases in the light of their current leader?

Perhaps 'empty' means no oil?
Perhaps these tankers are removing Russian 'equipment' from Venezuela, back to the homeland?
Unlikely we will be told.

Paperbackwriter

SueDonim

According to the BBC, a number of US military planes left the UK this morning and the US has seized the empty oil tanker in the Atlantic that is linked to Venezuelan oil. It is apparently empty.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cwynjdqgellt

There are ( I gather..) 14 empty tankers out there that the US is having a Good Look at.

There is no profit for Trump in empty tankers.