Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Cossy

Starfish

“Normal" as in, plenty of off the cuff, not so smart comments, a lot of flubs and even dumb remarks, is what I meant.

Not polished, prepared in the can remarks of a professional politician.

Because, he's not a professional politician, that's a fact.”

Just out of curiosity, you consider the above to be an asset and something to be admired?

He’s the leader of one of the most powerful countries in our world, don’t you think it would be good to be well prepared, professional and yes even polished, with all info at hand and no “dumb comments” at every public appearance?

It's both an asset and a hinderance. It's real, not fake, which is rare in todays political bs tell them what they want to hear politicians.

But, he does put his foot in his mouth too many times as a consequence of that reality.

And what I do not admire is his tendency to hold grudges, although, I understand being called a fascist for how many years now might make someone pretty resentful and vindictive.

But he should not let that rule him, unfortunately it sometimes does.

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Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

MayBee70

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

I've had all my vaccines, so no not antivaxxer. I just didn't bother with the Covid vaccine....too new, no long term trials on effectiveness or side effects.

Didn't want to be a Guinea pig.

Well, turns out, it never stopped the spread.

Supposedly then, they decided it made symptoms better instead. But since there were so many mild or asymptomatic cases reported in the beginning anyway, before the vaccines, I figure, that claim is questionable to say the least.

They even changed the definition of a vaccine for it. So much money was made. Just have to wonder.

But, I do believe in most vaccines, the old tech ones that actually provide immunity, thus the name immunizations....

So how do you feel about the way your government is putting people off vaccinating against measles?

What are you talking about? I saw RFK saying the best way to avoid measles is the MMR vaccine. Maybe I"m not up to speed on that; mostly I hear talk about freedom of choice in vaccination rather than recommending no vaccines.

“Cases of the incredibly contagious measles virus are continuing to rise in Texas and across the US as the nation's top health official promotes treatments not supported by health experts.
To date this year, the US has recorded more than 250 measles cases across several states, including Oklahoma, Alaska, California, Georgia, Florida, New York, Kentucky and Rhode Island.
The epicentre remains in western Texas and neighbouring New Mexico, where two unvaccinated people have died from the virus.
It comes as Health Secretary Robert F Kennedy, Jr continues to focus on unproven treatments like cod liver oil, and his casting doubt on the safety of the vaccines.
The BBC has contacted the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) for comment.
Measles is a dangerous virus that has no cure and can lead to a host of complications, including pneumonia and brain swelling. It can be deadly.
Vaccination rates must be 95% or higher for the broader population to be protected, but several communities where the virus is spreading have rates well below that.
The US declared measles eliminated in 2000, but outbreaks have continued to crop up in recent years as anti-vaccine sentiments have grown.
Health officials say cases have shown no signs of slowing down in western Texas, where two pregnant women recently reported infections.
Across the state's border, New Mexico now has more than 30 cases, while new infections have been confirmed in Oklahoma, New York and in Los Angeles this week.
In several instances, unvaccinated Americans have spread measles to others after contracting the virus outside of the country, including on Long Island in New York, where a baby caught the virus while traveling with family, health officials say.
Cases are also on the rise in Canada, which has reported 146 infections.
Kennedy has so far offered mixed messages about the outbreaks.
At first, he suggested the rising cases were "not unusual" for the US, before backtracking and calling the situation "serious".
Then, this week, in an interview with Fox News, Kennedy suggested cod liver oil and other alternative measles treatments had proven "miraculous".
The remarks are resonating with some residents in western Texas, said Ron Cook, a family physician and health official who is helping doctors respond to the outbreak in Lubbock, where a child died of measles this month.
There, a handful of physicians, external are handing out cod liver oil to parents of sick children who are sceptical of measles immunizations, Dr Cook said. One physician told NBC News he was just trying to help families with the alternative treatment "like Bobby Kennedy is trying to do".
Vitamin A - a nutrient found in cod liver oil - is sometimes offered as a part of a treatment for measles, especially if someone is deficient, Dr Cook said. But, he added, it is difficult to monitor the levels of the vitamin in cod liver oil, which could endanger children if they are given too much of the vitamin or other nutrients it contains.
"What disappoints me the most is that they're not talking about the vaccine," Dr Cook said.
He said he believed that it was a missed opportunity to engage with vaccine-sceptical communities to help slow the spread of measles.
Kennedy, this week, offered a conditional endorsement of the vaccine, telling Fox News it was "recommended" for the Texas Mennonite community - the origin of the outbreak - while also suggesting some of the children had been harmed by the vaccines, which have been thoroughly studied and found to be safe.
This week, the Children's Health Defense, the anti-vaccine nonprofit that Kennedy founded, updated and re-promoted a 2021 book in which Kennedy called measles vaccines "risky".
"Measles outbreaks have been fabricated to create fear that in turn forces government officials to 'do something,'" he said, adding that benefits of the vaccine had been "exaggerated".
This is from the BBC last year.

I read that the new militia has only received training of about 6 weeks.

I do wonder how many of them are from the proud boys gangs and white supremacist. They certainly act like them.

Cossy

Btw, do you live in the USA?

S\he claims to.

“THIS!!! If people in the media stopped the hysteria over law enforcement, if folks would just cooperate, so much of this would be avoided!

A person always has the right to see a judge and give those arguments. And worse case, if you did what you did, broke the law, then pay the penalty. And next time, don't do it.”

Oh dear, bit difficult to do this if you’re dead

Btw, do you live in the USA?

Starfish

“Normal" as in, plenty of off the cuff, not so smart comments, a lot of flubs and even dumb remarks, is what I meant.

Not polished, prepared in the can remarks of a professional politician.

Because, he's not a professional politician, that's a fact.”

Just out of curiosity, you consider the above to be an asset and something to be admired?

He’s the leader of one of the most powerful countries in our world, don’t you think it would be good to be well prepared, professional and yes even polished, with all info at hand and no “dumb comments” at every public appearance?

David49

Regardless of right and wrong or the rights of the individual, you do NOT argue with anyone that’s pointing a gun at you. That’s when tragedies happen, however well trained police are they are human and make mistakes, we see this repeatedly and it’s no consolation to the victim that error has been made.

That why it’s a really good idea to follow orders of the police, save your argument for later.

THIS!!! If people in the media stopped the hysteria over law enforcement, if folks would just cooperate, so much of this would be avoided!

A person always has the right to see a judge and give those arguments. And worse case, if you did what you did, broke the law, then pay the penalty. And next time, don't do it.

Starfire57

MayBee70

Starfire57

MayBee70

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

I've had all my vaccines, so no not antivaxxer. I just didn't bother with the Covid vaccine....too new, no long term trials on effectiveness or side effects.

Didn't want to be a Guinea pig.

Well, turns out, it never stopped the spread.

Supposedly then, they decided it made symptoms better instead. But since there were so many mild or asymptomatic cases reported in the beginning anyway, before the vaccines, I figure, that claim is questionable to say the least.

They even changed the definition of a vaccine for it. So much money was made. Just have to wonder.

But, I do believe in most vaccines, the old tech ones that actually provide immunity, thus the name immunizations....

So how do you feel about the way your government is putting people off vaccinating against measles?

What are you talking about? I saw RFK saying the best way to avoid measles is the MMR vaccine. Maybe I"m not up to speed on that; mostly I hear talk about freedom of choice in vaccination rather than recommending no vaccines.

With global measles cases surging more than 20% in a year, the spectre of an anti-vaccine leader like Robert F Kennedy Junior at the helm of US health policy has alarmed public health experts. Kennedy, a well-known vaccine sceptic, has long promoted dangerous misconceptions about vaccines, and his influence could worsen an already dire situation.
WHO reported that measles cases increased globally from 8·6 million in 2022 to 10·3 million in 2023.1 Tragically, most of these infections occurred in low-income, conflict-ridden regions, where vulnerable populations are already struggling with inadequate access to health care. Even worse, the growing vaccine hesitancy spurred by pandemic-era disruptions has contributed to these rising numbers,2 making a future under Kennedy's leadership potentially catastrophic.
A stark example of the devastating impact of vaccine misinformation is Samoa's 2019 measles outbreak.3 In this island nation of 200 000, more than 5700 people were infected and 83 people died, most of whom were young children. Samoa's Ministry of Health cited Kennedy's visit and his rhetoric as exacerbating vaccine hesitancy at a crucial moment.4 Kennedy's non-profit, Children's Health Defense, contributed to this atmosphere of mistrust just months before the outbreak.4 Samoa's experience underscores how even one prominent anti-vaccine figure can ignite a public health crisis.
In the USA, Kennedy's influence could parallel the troubling trends observed in Florida under Surgeon General Joseph Ladapo, who has publicly questioned the necessity and safety of vaccines. Since Ladapo's appointment in 2021, childhood vaccination rates in Florida have fallen precipitously.5 A particularly telling case occurred in Broward County, where a measles outbreak sickened unvaccinated children. Despite clear US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidance, Ladapo's advisories contradicted science-based protocols, fuelling further mistrust in vaccines.
The USA, long seen as a global standard-bearer for public health policy, faces a dire risk if Kennedy gains control over the Department of Health and Human Services. His misleading and often conspiratorial claims have already weakened confidence in public health, a legacy that could have far-reaching and deadly consequences both domestically and globally. It is not just the poorest and most vulnerable who will suffer; unvaccinated infants, immunocompromised individuals, and entire communities are at risk.
Vaccines are among civilisation's greatest achievements, backed by decades of rigorous research.6 Kennedy's promotion of debunked claims, such as the false link between vaccines and autism, shows a troubling disregard for science and public welfare. With so much at risk, public health leaders must act decisively to safeguard our progress and combat dangerous misinformation.
This is an article in The Lancet.

Starfire

You and I must be watching and listening to different things.

I don’t consider anything Trump says “off the cuff” as being anything remotely resembling “normal”

Purplepixie

Shocking!!!! I’ve cried about it. I’ll never go back to visit relatives in USA ever again.

I believe many many people won’t be visiting the USA again for a very long time.

It’s not just about Trump, Vance, Elon Musk, for us (our family and friends), it’s about the amount of supporters of Trump, a madman out of control who thinks shooting people is ok “just in case…”, who believes he’s a “peace maker”, truly believes he can simply buy countries who have zero interest of forming part of the USA, he spreads lies, he creates chaos and insults most people in his own country and many other countries. Frankly, the man is an utter disgrace. He’s power mad as backed up by the hundreds of executive orders he’s signed, which under the USA system need go nowhere near congress, it’s shocking and very disturbing.

For those who voted for him, you reap what you sow, for the rest of the USA I feel profoundly sorry for you all.

Cossy

MaizieD

I’m afraid that your post addressed to me isn’t worth responding to, Starfire57. You appear to see a rational person, I see a maniac. Our minds will never meet.

Mine neither, to state “Trump talks like a normal person…” would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic.

Starfire certainly doesn’t reflect the views of the friends and relatives I have in the USA.

"Normal" as in, plenty of off the cuff, not so smart comments, a lot of flubs and even dumb remarks, is what I meant.

Not polished, prepared in the can remarks of a professional politician.

Because, he's not a professional politician, that's a fact.

David, no one has suggested that the gentleman who put three shots into the head of an unarmed woman was police, nor was he well trained.
The recruitment for this group, and their training, are both sketchy, to say the least.
Moving away from the car would have de- escalated the situation, but ...

Starfire57

Basgetti

Been trying to quote MayBee70 but it won’t work.

Of course the vaccine didn’t stop the spread. It was never claimed that it would. What it did do was save many millions of lives by significantly reducing the severity of the symptoms.

They just said they never claimed that, after they found out they were wrong the first time.

I personally watched President Joe Biden on TV say you will not get Covid if you get the vaccine. I saw the director of the CDC also claim this. Fauci did, and many journalists like Rachael Maddow and others.

I literally saw this for myself, on my television, in real time. But dont' take my word for it, look it all up, there are videos on youtube of these people saying you will not get Covid and you cannot spread Covid.

Later they changed it to well you might get it, but you won't end up in the hospital if you get vaccinated.

And so much for that.....two of my friends who were fully vaccinated (3 shots at the time) ended up in the hospital with Covid.

I'm sure they were not the only ones.

The narrative changed right in front of my face. But, people easily forget things sometimes. Especially when they want to believe what they hear.

I don’t forget anything about the pandemic because me and my family did everything possible to protect ourselves quite early on in 2020 and we read up on everything we could. It was a new vaccine and it was hoped that it would stop people from catching it but it was soon realised that it only reduced the severity of symptoms. No one hid the fact; it was an ongoing crisis and we were learning all the time. It still reduced the death rate dramatically.

My wife has a brother and sister in the US, one Democrat one Republican, so we hear opposite opinions continiously, yesterday we had breakfast with democrat brother in law. We had to change the subject 3 times to avoid politics, whatever happens in the US it’s not going to affect our family politics

Starfire's correct. July 21 2021 Biden did say if you have the vaccine you wont get Covid. You can find it on Google.

Then the new claim was, well, you can get it, spread it to others, but it won't be so bad.

Well I had tons of friends who got it before the vaccine and it wasn't so bad. And 2 of my fully vaxxed friends (3 shots) actually did end up in the hospital, so, go figure?

In fact, look at all the asymptomatic or mild case reports during the time and you'll realize, giving full credit to the vaccine for making a case mild is really a stretch.......mild cases were happening all the time before they even got the vaccine out.

But my original point was, yes, they tried to claim the vaccine stopped you from getting it and spreading it, until they realized, it didn't.

And here's a link to a compilation of people saying you won't get it or cause it to go onto others....Rachel Maddow, Biden and Fauci are among the people in this.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJGZrqWUA2A

I saw these broadcasts at the time. They backtracked on these claims after they saw vaccinated people still getting sick and infecting others.

Although so much of it is buried after 5 years, it can be found.

For example, this broadcast on local news a few years ago, which is now found on youtube. About 35 seconds into the broadcast, the CDC director at the time says this very claim, that vaccinated people will not get the virus or spread it.

Then around 1:19, another expert doctor gets on the newscast to claim the same thing.

MaizieD

I’m afraid that your post addressed to me isn’t worth responding to, Starfire57. You appear to see a rational person, I see a maniac. Our minds will never meet.

Mine neither, to state “Trump talks like a normal person…” would be hilarious if it weren’t so tragic.

Starfire certainly doesn’t reflect the views of the friends and relatives I have in the USA.

Whitewavemark2

An authoritarian president who has spent as much on the setting up of untrained thuggish agents as some small states spend on their entire military, and has sent a message “treat them rough” is not conducive to the population learning anything.

What the ordinary man in the street is seeing are out of control thugs who operate with impunity, the break down of law and order and their liberal democracy under threat.

Trump is re-writing history and as others have quoted Orwell, Americans are being told thst they can’t believe their own eyes.

Look at the WH pages and be astounded at the way the events of Jan 6th has been re- written - apparently it was all the fault of the police!

Apologists for this regime will rue the day that they never pushed back when they had the chance - I can see nothing but disaster ahead unless Trump is stopped.

I agree

Regardless of right and wrong or the rights of the individual, you do NOT argue with anyone that’s pointing a gun at you. That’s when tragedies happen, however well trained police are they are human and make mistakes, we see this repeatedly and it’s no consolation to the victim that error has been made.

That why it’s a really good idea to follow orders of the police, save your argument for later.

Starfish, you are helping to derail this thread with your numerous 'opinions' about other matters. I suggest you start your own threads on the merits or otherwise of vaccines.

Maremia

Sorry Starfire, but without viewing relevant and reliable evidence, I will decline from taking your word on it.

Really, you want me to go look up the youtube links which have video of them saying these things that I saw them say myself on TV news? Do you know how to use google?