Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

Oreo

I won’t do any nested quotes as it’s getting confusing but having seen the pic evidence from several angles it seems to me that the car either brushed the ICE officer or just went very close to him.The wife of the driver was taunting the officer saying ‘go get some lunch big boy’ and the other two officers were repeatedly telling the driver to get out of the car.The wife then opened the car door and said ‘drive baby drive!’ And you see the car lurch forward and that’s when the driver is shot through the windscreen.
In the US you do what armed authorities tell you.
Is it right? I don’t think so but we don’t have armed citizens or routinely armed officers and we have different laws here.
The whole thing is a tragedy that both ICE and citizens have to learn from.

They were doing nothing that was not legal..
They were leaving.
The officers were going against any training they had which is to step AWAY from the car . That is what they should have done and there is an actual law that states that.
That law is there to protect citizens against police overstepping boundaries.
The police in this case did overstep their boundaries.
Renee was murdered and I hope she will be vindicated in the court of law, despite Trump,and his gang of thugs trying too circumvent it by eroding our Democracy at home and around the world .

Purplepixie, Trump won't last forever. I know Vance is just as bad, but he does not have Trump's 'charisma'. He will not be able to mesmerise the MAGA, in the way that Trump does.
It will end.

Shocking!!!! I’ve cried about it. I’ll never go back to visit relatives in USA ever again.

Absolutely horrendous and it reminded ne of the murder of Blair Peach .

Trump beginning to prepare to knobbly the mid-terms

This.

ICE is becoming an unaccountable police force enabled to arrest and hold people without explanation. They have morphed from customs officers and border force into a heavily armed paramilitary force who are operating with impunity.
They are not just dealing with immigration, but stopping, arresting, and shooting ordinary US citizens.

There is a lawlessness taking place that has never been seen on the streets of America.

Trump is accumulating power and as a result distorting democracy in the USA

But even if she was a paid Left wing agitator does that excuse her killing ?
I think not.No wonder people in the U.S.are worried.These unregulated ICE thugs are without restraint and it now seems are encouraged to act in this way by the highest authority.

Minneapolis is being overwhelmed by Federal Agents - now outnumbering the local police by a considerable amount.

People are reporting that these agents are now enforcing road blocks in and out of the city.

Tension is bound to mount.

In normal times, the federal agents would be recalled in order to allow the whole situation to calm, but this won’t happen as it suits Trump to have a state of emergency.

MayBee70

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

I've had all my vaccines, so no not antivaxxer. I just didn't bother with the Covid vaccine....too new, no long term trials on effectiveness or side effects.

Didn't want to be a Guinea pig.

Well, turns out, it never stopped the spread.

Supposedly then, they decided it made symptoms better instead. But since there were so many mild or asymptomatic cases reported in the beginning anyway, before the vaccines, I figure, that claim is questionable to say the least.

They even changed the definition of a vaccine for it. So much money was made. Just have to wonder.

But, I do believe in most vaccines, the old tech ones that actually provide immunity, thus the name immunizations....

Depends on what reports you believe. Many are saying she was a paid Left wing agitator who had been obstructing the officials repeatedly.

Oreo

Thanks Starfire57 that’s interesting as most of us don’t know all the ins and outs of the American system and what States can do or not do.

You are welcome. It is kinda complicated, I even lose track of who has what authority on many issues. Sometimes I have to look it up. All the upper and lower courts, I have no clue on those, but those also play a part and do effect what, for example, a governor can do or even what the President can do.

Starfire you have made your views known clearly and at great length. We are all entitled to our opinions. Fortunately there are people on this forum who are more sensible. I can see now how Trump and his ilk bulldozer their way into power.

So Starfire is an anti vacc’er too. That figures….

Thanks Starfire57 that’s interesting as most of us don’t know all the ins and outs of the American system and what States can do or not do.

Oreo

I can’t see that democracy is under threat as citizens have the opportunity to vote differently in the next election.
The President has a lot of power, it isn’t anything like our system of a PM.On a local level ( State) citizens can let the powers that be know their feelings on a subject but they know they can’t change anything until the President changes.
It’s mixed feelings from what I can make out as some dislike what ICE are doing and some do like any illegal immigrants being removed.

Exactly. There is no threat to democracy here. The majority voted for this and that's what they are getting.

The states do not trump federal laws, but many laws are made by states in which the federal government cannot supersede, as per our constitution.

States have certain powers; the federal government has certain powers.

For example, all health regulations/issues are to be run by state and local governments, local being a county or city.

So when Covid happened, Trump handed that over to the states.... since this happened in his first term.

People here were livid......why isn't he handling it, why isn't he doing something??

Well, he did what his federal powers allowed.....he stopped all travel from China, where the first reports indicated that was the source of the virus. The federal government has the authority has the say on our borders and incoming threats.

He was called a xenophobe by Democrats for doing his job.

He had the federal government give money, supplies, other things states needed, but states still had the absolute authority over Covid and subsequent regulations, again, as per the law. That's why we saw some states mandate masks while others did not.

Alot of it was determined by how bad the threat was within a state itself.

Our president has some absolute powers as Commander in Chief, but other powers lie in our Congress, or our Supreme Court.

Immigration is a federal, not state issue. When some states declared themselves sanctuary states, they really had no authority but took it anyway.

Which didn't matter until illegal immigration got out of hand. Now the feds are coming to do their job. It is completely within our laws and our system that this is happening.

It's not fascism, or authoritarian rule, it's our laws and system.

Interesting though, President Biden mandated the experimental vaccine for Covid himself, which went against the powers of the states to determine such mandates and regulations concerning any health threats in our nation.

And Democrats didn't question it. It prevailed. People lost jobs, got blacklisted, had businesses shut down, could not travel, go to school, or attend certain events, etc because they feared this new tech which had not been used in this manner before and did not want to be forced.

There was talk of more severe punishments, and police enforcement, but luckily there was ALOT of pushback.

After Covid was over, after people lost their jobs, homes, had their business shut down, etc., then finally the whole thing went to the Supreme Court and the court found that what Biden did was not within his power and was unconstitutional.

Not at all within his power. Yet he did it anyway,.

Susieq62

The more I read, the more I see this as murder most foul.
So grateful I live in the UK despite its faults and difficulties.

👏👏👏

Starfire57

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Honestly, one can only assume you are a Trump supporter and we all know there is no swaying hardline Trump supporters.

Like Farage, this whole illegal immigration issue has been blown so far out of proportion and the so called “actions” or suggestions of actions are simply appalling.

There are so many other things more important, (in my opinion) to fix first, both sides of the pond:-

EG

Healthcare
Unemployment
Homelessness

And in the UK, our growing number of unemployed young people and those younger suffering untreated mental health conditions.

Let’s just be real, immigration of all kinds needs reviewing and systems clearly not working.

Let’s take a leaf from Australia maybe, great border control, a system to spot visa overstayers and those working on the incorrect visas, good use of officers to weed out black market employers and subsequently illegally employed workers, all dealt with efficiently, humanely and without out a shot being fired!

I’m not suggesting ignoring illegal immigration, but the ICE model is really not for any sane person!

Thank you Starfire57 for answering a dubious question that bears no relation to 1930’s Germany.👍🏻

Mamie

Starfire57

Cooperate. Be calm. Stop believing the calculated fear mongering that leads people to do things they should not. Follow the law.

Do not hand pick the laws you want to abide by and disobey the ones you don't. Do not obstruct law enforcement.

Do not think you are untouchable. Because, you are not.

Historically, would you have applied this to people faced by the Brownshirts?

No, not at all, because they were actually rounding up Jewish people for slavery and slaughtering them, putting them in gas chambers.

You are comparing mass murder and genocide to our countries lawmakers removing people who broke the law to get into the country, and many of them are criminals, murderers, human traffickers, drug dealers, etc.

Lord! Literally no comparison.

I can’t see that democracy is under threat as citizens have the opportunity to vote differently in the next election.
The President has a lot of power, it isn’t anything like our system of a PM.On a local level ( State) citizens can let the powers that be know their feelings on a subject but they know they can’t change anything until the President changes.
It’s mixed feelings from what I can make out as some dislike what ICE are doing and some do like any illegal immigrants being removed.

An authoritarian president who has spent as much on the setting up of untrained thuggish agents as some small states spend on their entire military, and has sent a message “treat them rough” is not conducive to the population learning anything.

What the ordinary man in the street is seeing are out of control thugs who operate with impunity, the break down of law and order and their liberal democracy under threat.

Trump is re-writing history and as others have quoted Orwell, Americans are being told thst they can’t believe their own eyes.

Look at the WH pages and be astounded at the way the events of Jan 6th has been re- written - apparently it was all the fault of the police!

Apologists for this regime will rue the day that they never pushed back when they had the chance - I can see nothing but disaster ahead unless Trump is stopped.

Sorry odd typos I did check then certain words changed.

I do know that at close range there was absolutely no excuse for shooting a person in the head. I don't excuse these women, I don't know the whole story, but if you feel threatened with armed police surrounding you would it be reasonable to get hyped up and in flight mode. Did these people have mental testhat issues. It seems in America it's kill first, you can't even say they question later as they seem untouchable. Is this what we want of society, no caring, life cheap and expendable. Children have been left motherless, what will their lives be. It us supposed to be a Christian country this is going against everything Chrisianity is. Immigration has not been handled properly anywhere, even here, we gave yo know whom we have, will they with and learn the language and love their adopted country. The fault lies with lazy and total mismanagement and sending all the wrong messages out. Treat others as you would be treated.
Trump has a nerve even meeting with religious leaders, he has no heart and I fear no common sense. He is the highest power in his eyes and the stupid enable him.

I won’t do any nested quotes as it’s getting confusing but having seen the pic evidence from several angles it seems to me that the car either brushed the ICE officer or just went very close to him.The wife of the driver was taunting the officer saying ‘go get some lunch big boy’ and the other two officers were repeatedly telling the driver to get out of the car.The wife then opened the car door and said ‘drive baby drive!’ And you see the car lurch forward and that’s when the driver is shot through the windscreen.
In the US you do what armed authorities tell you.
Is it right? I don’t think so but we don’t have armed citizens or routinely armed officers and we have different laws here.
The whole thing is a tragedy that both ICE and citizens have to learn from.