Woman shot and killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis, Minnesota

I noticed also, a very significant increase of convictions from 2021-24, during Bidens term, which logically indicates more crime, thus more arrests and convictions. (Starfire57 Thu 15-Jan-26 20:52:54)

The statistics show an increase in convictions during that time, but concluding that this “logically indicates more crime” assumes causation. Convictions can rise due to enforcement, prosecution, or reporting changes, even if crime rates stay flat or fall. Without controlling for those factors, the data shows correlation, not causation.

*Example, if ice cream sales and drownings both increase in summer, it wouldn’t be logical to conclude that ice cream causes drowning.

Could he actually stop the midterms?
Claim the country is at war?

Just to add, obviously the Trump trend starting in 2017-20 continued into Biden's first year in 2020 but took a sharp turn after that year in 2021, but in Trumps first year 2025 he turned it around very quickly.

Now if anyone notices, 2017, when Trump took over from Obama, wasn't bad, at all. In fact, some of the stats were better than 2025 in some of the crime catagories.

That is a testament to Obama, who actually did do a decent job at the border himself! Biden is the one who messed it all up.

Well, I doubt many here will care, but I did find the statistics on illegal alien convictions by year of various crimes. When I looked at the charts, it seems they went down quite a bit during the period of 2018-2020, which would reflect less crime, less convictions. This was during Trumps first period of getting tough on the border after he was elected.

I noticed also, a very significant increase of convictions from 2021-24, during Bidens term, which logically indicates more crime, thus more arrests and convictions.

Now the charts show in 2025, another great reduction. Is it a coincidence that when Trump is in office, illegal crime arrests convictions go down? Doubtful, it's not coincidence because he is getting rid of the source!

It will be interesting how 2026 plays out in those stats.

I don't think people realize how we have been infiltrated by these gangs and mafia coming in, from many countries, using the Mexican border as the way in. All they pay attention to is the news media hysteria and that they happen to live in a better area where the crime hasn't taken over yet.

But the more observant understand how close we were to having a third world here in the US and again, I do believe that was the mandate Trump was talking about when he got elected, to which even I was oblivious to and that's why I didn't bother voting for him, nor Karmela, because I didn't have faith anyone would fix anything. But I think I was wrong about that.

www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-alien-statistics

This is something to think about. Is America “moving toward” totalitarianism?

Historians and political scientists usually avoid yes/no answers and instead ask:

Are constraints on power weakening?
Are norms being replaced by loyalty tests?
Are certain groups being dehumanised or excluded from legal protection?
Are emergency powers being normalised?

We will all have different answers but I suggest that those supporting the current state of affairs keep asking themselves these questions.

ICE is being described as Gestapo by a number of commentators.

If he invokes insurrection, will that affect the mid terms? Bit early I suppose, but it may provoke even more protests.

What a mess.

Syracute- I read that Joe Rogan, the biggest podcaster in US by most metrics- who endorsed Trump in 2024 election- compared ICE immigration raids to “Gestapo Operations” earlier this week.

Given Rogan’s cultural status and evidence in general that Americans appear to be turning against Trump’s hardline anti immigration efforts ( e.g Pew Research Center survey of US adults October 2925) , what impact if any do you see Rogan’s podcast comments on Trump escalating his anti immigrations efforts is having? Eg podcast impact versus media outlets versus White House Comms?

Trump is always threatening to do something.It would be interesting to see how many of these threats have been acted upon.

Whitewavemark2

Maremia

So many informative posts on here just now. Thanks to the Posters who have taken time to do this.

Yes! I meant to say the same and forgot.

But seconded.

Thirded 👍🏼

Trump is threatening now to invoke the Insurrection Act which will have the military be brought in if he actually invokes it.
So not only is he threatening war with other countries but as well with his own people.

He tries that threat before with the George Floyd riots but was talked out of it by his advisers. I am not sure that he will be talked out of it this time,

Syracute 13.44- thanks for that explanation.

Have read about a further ICE officer shooting someone in the leg after shovel attack- by 2 Minneapolis residents who came to Venezuelan suspect’s aid. Over 3000 ICE officers now present and tensions running high with local population. It all sounds horrendous.

The problem with the three detained American Indians is that they are known homeless without paperwork. They are acknowledged by the tribal leaders as part of their Lakota community.
Noem is pushing for documentation and the tribal leaders don’t feel the need to provide it due their rights as Native Americans and laws that differentiate from traditional US laws.

Meanwhile, they are in Fort Snelling a place that is historically challenging due abuse and imprisonment of Indians going back to 1862.

Laws are bent every day by ICE .
The laws are being pushed by ICE by moving those detained to various jails and often very far away from their communities.
In this case Fort Snelling which has a historically been a place of great suffering for the Lakota.

The Native Americans are known homeless in the community.
There is some disagreement between Noem and the tribal leaders.

I could ask Syracute, Oreo, but I was responding to Starfire's slightly patronising comment about how I should know that suspects can be detained by the police.
I posted that I did know this, and that, in Britain, there are time limits on this.
I asked the poster about time limitations on being held in custody in the USA.

Yes, Elegran that's a good and very obvious point, that people in charge should be experienced and qualified.
Unfortunately, Trump prefers 'fawners'.

By the way, spellcheck thinks your name is Elegant.

Very true Starfire57

Oreo

Starfire57
The attempts to get anyone off a thread because they hold another opinion are legion.I just take no notice of it or if it gets personal I report it to the moderators. We all have a right to our say and if others don’t like it it’s too bad. Any post to you that moans about the way you phrase a comment, or it’s too long or accuse you of trying to educate and so on are just weak attempts to get a poster to shut up and go away and leave a thread to an echo chamber.
So carry on as long as you want to on here, there’s no reason why one US poster is welcome and another not purely based on their views, and frankly that’s not usually the British way of doing things.

Thankyou, I do appreciate you saying something about it all. It can get irritating here at times.

I don’t think there’s a single one of us on here who hasn’t read all the reports in the news about it or seen the various videos with sound, so saw it and heard it.I further don’t think there’s a single one of us that thinks it was anything less than a tragedy for the driver and I don’t think there’s a single one of us who think that she deserved it.
The only point that I can see where we do differ is that a few of us think that she and her wife made a mistake in thinking that taunting language and obstruction using a car wasn’t a dangerous thing to do.Then, at the end, driving away so physically close to the ICE officer.A mistake which sadly cost a life.
We don’t know all the ins and outs of this however much we may think we do which is why an investigation is so important.

The US do things differently to us, just as most countries in the world do.
There will rightly be an investigation into the shooting, and everyone will just have to accept the verdict whatever it is.

ronib

What is the option? wwm2

For Gransnet members, the first option is to stop attacking each other and look behind opinions we don't agree with at the facts which cause them and us to hold those opinions, and at the source of those facts.

Many posters sieve media reports to remove AI pictures and partisan over-enthusiasm to keep only verifiable facts and first-person accounts and videos. Some post links to reliable sources like the actual laws and regulations that apply in flammable situations. Others, as they say in my area, just open their mouths and let their bellies rumble. Anyone who can't be bothered to acquaint themselves with two areas - what should happen and what did happen in reality - should keep a low profile.

At ground point zero, the best option is that the US should have people in office at the head of every government department who know the constitution and are prepared to act under the law, who are qualified and experienced in their area of power, and who have already proved that they have a care the welfare of ALL the people in the land. In addition, they should also believe that the land itself, the mountains and plains and rivers and animals, is a living system, to be cherished, and not plundered for individual million and billionaires to get even more rich, to the detriment of land and people. Oh, and they should be aware that the rest of the world is not a lucky dip bucket for the US to grab and exploit.

Then America could become great again.

Chocolatelovinggran

Starfire, it is legal, in Britain, to retain a subject in custody for a very limited time. If, within two days, insufficient evidence is found to charge them, they must be released.
May I ask wahat the permitted detention time is in the United States.

You could also ask Syracute if he/she is on here first.

Starfire57
The attempts to get anyone off a thread because they hold another opinion are legion.I just take no notice of it or if it gets personal I report it to the moderators. We all have a right to our say and if others don’t like it it’s too bad. Any post to you that moans about the way you phrase a comment, or it’s too long or accuse you of trying to educate and so on are just weak attempts to get a poster to shut up and go away and leave a thread to an echo chamber.
So carry on as long as you want to on here, there’s no reason why one US poster is welcome and another not purely based on their views, and frankly that’s not usually the British way of doing things.

Maremia

So many informative posts on here just now. Thanks to the Posters who have taken time to do this.

Yes! I meant to say the same and forgot.

But seconded.

Will take some time to properly read them. Think it will be worth it.