Is there a solution to this growing problem?

Only 2 days ago dh and I were on a bus where a young man who was refusing to pay, had been told by the driver to get off the bus. He stood right by the driver’s area, very loudly abusing him, while the driver maintained that he wasn’t moving until the bloke either paid or got off, and if he didn’t very soon, he’d be calling the police.
He did eventually take himself off.

M0nica

Maizie of course not every family, but a generation plus or minus who know their rights and demand them - and I did not criticise that, but a lot of them do not realise that theire are two sides and that with their rights come other peoples rights and they should not ride over other people roughshod.

I didn't think you were generalising. But I certainly think that our generation (the Boomers} were very iconoclastic and had so many freedoms that ne generations before us had had. We rejected as stuffy and old fashioned some of the mores and norms of society.

However responsibly we, as individuals, may have brought up our children I think that ideas permeated society and enabled a great deal of the disrespect and entitledness that we dislike now because not everyone learned, or wanted, to exercise restraint.

Cossy - your family sounds lovely and it must be wonderful to see them across that spread of ages. Children learn by example, don’t they? If they hear their parents talking to other people with respect, they learn how to do that.

We also need to learn to stand up for ourselves though, and I think that a lot of people struggle to be assertive without being aggressive. But you get much better outcomes if you treat other people well, learn to complain in the right way and stand up for yourself firmly but politely. I don’t think it’s generational or either - I encounter plenty of unpleasant/selfish behaviour from people the same age as me.

I do also think that we don’t know what’s going on in other people’s lives. I went through a really stressful period in my late 40’s and I suddenly realised that I had started to shout at people when things went wrong. My base level of stress was so high that I was not coping when my train got cancelled etc. I found myself shouting at someone down the phone in the street one day, and was thoroughly ashamed of my behaviour. I was really aware at that time of the positive benefit of random acts of kindness. I found myself in tears in the car one day because someone gave me their ticket with an hour left on it.

I don’t think social media helps - a lot of people seem to be forgetting how to filter their behaviour.

Perhaps we can do our bit by being kinder, smiling at people etc. Even if only one person feels a bit better and less grumpy as a result, perhaps we can push back against this trend?

..'ne generation' is meant to be 'no generation'

I sell online and recently got a load of abuse from a buyer whose parcel was making its way through the US postal system more slowly than she would like. I pasted in my usual message which begins "Im sorry to hear your package is delayed ..." I pointed out that I have no control over foreign postal systems and there was nothing I could do to speed it up. When the package finally arrived it had a customs charge on it - which was also "my fault". The buyer accused me of being rude and unhelpful and left a negative. Knowing the Ebay system as I do I got them to remove the review entirely because it mentioned a customs charge.

Welcome to my blocked buyer list.

Casdon

I couldn’t believe what I read yesterday on our local Facebook page. Our local Mountain Rescue team have been very busy the last couple of weeks due to people having accidents whilst out walking, and one of the team had been abused by somebody because he was putting up a sign to keep walkers safe. Mountain Rescue are all volunteers, who risk their own lives, often to save idiots who try to climb mountains wearing a pair of trainers and a jumper in the snow (I saw someone yesterday as I drove past, doing just that).

I have a DD who was airlifted off a mountain by mountain rescue after slipping and breaking her ankle. They do an amazing job and we were all very grateful. My DD is an experienced mountain walker and at the time was a trustee of the Ramblers. After her recovery she ran a half marathon to raise funds for the mountain rescue group who got her safely to hospitsl. Unfortunately there are many people who lack common sense and see any sensible advice as a restriction of their freedom to behave idiotically!

I agree about the importance of a good upbringing. If one doesn't learn boundaries at home, then where?!
Of course one reason why people can behave very badly and abusively is that in this day and age there is very little in the way of consequences

When I was a schoolgirl working in a saturday job in a supermarket I accidentally overcharged a customer. She pointed out the mistake and I immediately apologised and refunded the overcharged amount but she was unwilling to accept the apology and threw her purchases at me while accusing me of trying to rob her. The shop manager banned her from the store. Back then - probably about 1972 - that sort of behaviour seemed shocking, but it seems to be becoming commonplace these days. The need for traffic wardens to be supplied with body worn cameras is the latest example I've heard of recently. Security staff in shops is normal these days and cameras everywhere. It's a very sad state of affairs!

I have to agree with Oreo on this one.
Not making an excuse, just repeating a reason, that the aggression could be caused by MH issues going untreated.
Also agree with the Poster who pointed out the societal changes since Covid.

A kinder and more egalitarian world would help

Magenta I salute you for challenging the the boor who was being so rude to the bus driver.
I have made a mental resolution to follow your example if I find myself in a similar situation.

Declining public behaviour in the health service is not that recent.
About 8 years ago I attended casualty with a broken wrist.
Staff had to "pull" the arm to get the wrist bones straight . .Anaesthetised and a little giddy on gas and air and relief that it was over and had passed without agony ( I've seen Casualty!!) I thanked the doctor and nurse profusely for helping me/doing their job. Doctor expressed how nice it was to be dealing with someone who didn't shout at them.
I attended the OH here in France in hospital for about 10 days consecutively. Fair enough he was on a surgical ward and not in A and E but neither on the ward, nor in the reception nor anywhere else did I see one instance of abuse of the staff.

Witzend

Only 2 days ago dh and I were on a bus where a young man who was refusing to pay, had been told by the driver to get off the bus. He stood right by the driver’s area, very loudly abusing him, while the driver maintained that he wasn’t moving until the bloke either paid or got off, and if he didn’t very soon, he’d be calling the police.
He did eventually take himself off.

Good for the bus driver.

Of course, it will be pointed out that you never know if the offender is carrying a knife…..

But why should these idiots get away with blatantly refusing to pay their due?

Lahlah65

Cossy - your family sounds lovely and it must be wonderful to see them across that spread of ages. Children learn by example, don’t they? If they hear their parents talking to other people with respect, they learn how to do that.

We also need to learn to stand up for ourselves though, and I think that a lot of people struggle to be assertive without being aggressive. But you get much better outcomes if you treat other people well, learn to complain in the right way and stand up for yourself firmly but politely. I don’t think it’s generational or either - I encounter plenty of unpleasant/selfish behaviour from people the same age as me.

I do also think that we don’t know what’s going on in other people’s lives. I went through a really stressful period in my late 40’s and I suddenly realised that I had started to shout at people when things went wrong. My base level of stress was so high that I was not coping when my train got cancelled etc. I found myself shouting at someone down the phone in the street one day, and was thoroughly ashamed of my behaviour. I was really aware at that time of the positive benefit of random acts of kindness. I found myself in tears in the car one day because someone gave me their ticket with an hour left on it.

I don’t think social media helps - a lot of people seem to be forgetting how to filter their behaviour.

Perhaps we can do our bit by being kinder, smiling at people etc. Even if only one person feels a bit better and less grumpy as a result, perhaps we can push back against this trend?

Thank you and yes, life is tough at times for us all. As a general rule of thumb I always try and remain calm and polite, but this can go to complete pot when I am stressed or it comes to things I feel really passionately about

Labradora, please don’t assume that it wouldn’t be much the same here. A couple of years ago I was in hospital for 3 weeks, with pneumonia, followed immediately by pleurisy, and not once did I see any instance of a patient abusing any member of staff.

the trouble is there is no respect for the law anymore, criminals have learnt they can be naughty and get away with it, there are no repercussions, locally we have shop lifters stealing from Tesco express on a daily basis, because even when staff ring the police they never bother to show up, staff are told not to put themselves at risk, rightly so, which leads to them blatantly walking in every day helping themselves and walking out. Even when a crime is reported nothing happens, I was on our local PRIDE march in the summer, and a Turkish barber shop owner was standing on his step shouting homophobic insults and SPITTING into the crowd, witnessed by 100's of people, reported to police, got a crime number , made a statement, they were arrested , front page local paper news, but six months later, no prosecution or further action,police said not enough evidence!?! It is like dealing with a naughty child , if they learn they can get away with stuff, they do it again and again and it escalates into total social breakdown of lawlessness.

Whilst I have absolutely no violent intentions, I cannot ignore Monica's comment. I have almost no trust and very little respect for our Government.

Bottom line, I guess, is to stop, take a deep breath, then respond.

The poster who stated listening is so on the ball, working in a job centre was far from easy, however I was in a minority of staff who actually bothered to listen to their claimants. Active listening appears to be a forgotten art.

Grans on here, as in other threads, have raised excellent points.

Rudeness towards those in the public sector tends to become worst when people have been living under difficult conditions too long. These days a lot of individuals and families are doing just that.

This is meant as an explanation, not an excuse.

Since the 1970s expressions have been tolerated and used in public in all European languages that frankly most of our generation of women , at least ,had never heard anyone use.

So now ,a lot of people use expressions as just that, that others find indecent and abusive.

And then there is what I choose to call "the cult of ME"

In my lifetime (1951 onwards) the emphasis has changed from people of all ages being expected to show consideration to others, do their jobs properly and not complain, to the individual's right to "realise their potential".

Taken at face value ,this is not such a bad thing, but unfortunately the expression is usually interpretated to mean "I have the right to do as I want."

No society can survive if it is comprised of a collection of individuals all shouting ME, ME, ME all the time. Society consists of individuals working together for the common good.

Out today figures that state homicides in London are down 60% since 2003. Knife crime is down 7%.

This is only London of course, elsewhere in the country incidences of violence are rampant if these posts are anything to go by...

Homestead62

I noticed the difference in people after the Pandemic. People are definitely more aggressive and common courtesy, pleasantries are out the window. Entitlement abounds. Catching the bus is now like a rugby scrum as nobody queues, they are all desperate to get in front. The Pandemic changed us all and with some folks, not for the better. I worked in catering, glad I was able to retire as I hear it's hell on earth now to work in, probably the same with any public facing job. Life just isn't the same.

I certainly noticed a difference after Lockdown and have had other people comment to me on that as well. I don't know about the virus itself - but those Lockdown restrictions certainly meant a lot of us had to "hold onto our tempers" when we came across them and if a jobsworth started playing up with a "rules for rules sake" = they'd just got a problematic situation on their hands which they had just created.

Fortunately - in the part of the country I'm in = most people took a reasonable attitude and, by and large, as one went about one's business there would be pretty reasonable attitudes. Cue for one of the largest parties I went to was during Lockdown and a couple of police walked up to the group I was in there and said in calm tone of voice "You're a group of friends together are you?". The reply was a polite "Yes officer" and off they walked. Just as well he didn't ask me anyone's name when he said that to me - as I only knew one or two names....

So most of the time there wasnt an issue.

It was after it that the issues came up in the main - ie some people (including me) were thrown out of more conventional social groups (I lost a bookclub and someone else told me her husband had lost a martial arts club - so I told everyone the name of the group that threw me out ...though I know there were some people that kept quiet about groups that had thrown them out).

So I think a lot of "attitudes" have been caused by "Lockdown attitudes" putting peoples backs up.

The key word is “ Entitlement”
People know their rights without their responsibilities. It Happened a lot in the latter years of my teaching career!

As someone who once was a teacher I was mortified to see the changes coming in when I retired, my SiL who teaches tells me how powerless teachers are to deal with unruly pupils who proudly announce they know their rights. Am no fan of corporal punishment in schools but certainly a teacher should have the ability to discipline a child, though who can discipline some of the parents who march into school swearing at staff for putting their little darling in detention is very much another matter.

We put up a zero tolerance for bad behaviour, abuse or rudeness sign in the school foyer.
Some parents were astonished that we thought it necessary, others ignored it.
Parents storming in to know why their child had been reprimanded!
Parents shouting at the teacher, refusing to believe that their child had been violent even while said child is punching them or hitting them with a school bag.
The list is increasing.

Mollygo

We put up a zero tolerance for bad behaviour, abuse or rudeness sign in the school foyer.
Some parents were astonished that we thought it necessary, others ignored it.
Parents storming in to know why their child had been reprimanded!
Parents shouting at the teacher, refusing to believe that their child had been violent even while said child is punching them or hitting them with a school bag.
The list is increasing.

And we wonder why school leavers can’t accept the discipline of work