Robert Jenrick has been sacked

Labour’s conference in 2022 did vote in favour of PR, on a motion backed by members and many unions. But the leadership never committed to making PR a real manifesto or government pledge — which you have interpreted as Labour backing off from the idea Graphite

In other words, PR was strongly supported at conference level, but it was never Labour leadership policy or a firm manifesto commitment, and the leadership maintained that PR is not its priority right now.

One reason discussions like this often struggle to develop is that people tend to approach them from firmly held partisan positions, which can make genuine exchange a bit harder. You cannot discuss with someone who posts as Graphite did as, although they ask for others to explain, they have already moved into debate mode where they simply defend an already held position.

foxie48

Signed!

Actually I am hoping that this latest defection does harm to Reform and strengthens the conservative party. I am not a Conservative voter but we need a decent opposition that voters will support rather than being driven into the arms of Farage and his band of chancers. I can understand why dispirited voters might want change and be tempted to vote for Reform but I'd ask them to look across the pond to see where this has got the US. I genuinely think Farage/Reform would take us to a very dark place that would continue the divisions in society rather than try to heal them.

The Waifs and Strays Party.
#Ken Clarke describing UKIP.

I do not think it is pointless at all Maizie. The fact that something has not happened before does not mean it should not be discussed or improved.

When someone votes for an MP, they are also voting for the party platform that MP stood on. If an MP later changes party, it is reasonable for constituents to feel they deserve a fresh say. Wanting a by-election is not about punishment, it is about democratic accountability.

Progress often comes from small, steady steps and continued pressure, not from dismissing concerns outright. We can disagree on the solution without shutting down the conversation.

MaizieD

Petition calling for an automatic by-election when MPs cross the floor

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/737660

Signed✔️

Can someone please explain precisely how two Tory MPs, who were in opposition anyway and have just shuffled further along the oppostion benches are no longer representing their constituents?

Reform is just the one issue, far right-wing of the Tories. Farage was a Tory, Tice was a Tory, Anderson was a Tory, Pochin was a Tory councilllor.

If you happen to have Kruger or Jenrick as your MP, you can, in theory, still contact them about local and personal issues and someone, if not them but a caseworker, will help you. I don’t know what happens in Clacton.

As I wrote above, the majority of voters are not represented at a national level. Over 60% of the people who live in Kruger’s and Jenrick’s constituencies did not vote for them.

Last year, Pochin won Runcorn and Helsby by just six votes. Again, over 60% of voters did not want her.

FPTP means that this pattern is represented throughout the country to a greater or lesser degree.

Labour gained a huge majority in 2024 with only 34% of the vote. It received a lower vote share than any party forming a post–war majority government. The Tories’ 24% vote share was 20 percentage points down on 2019 and lower than at any general election since 1832 but they still form the official opposition. LibDems won 12.2% of the vote share and 72 seats, Reform 14.3% and only four seats, Greens 6.7% and four seats.

In 2024, Reform effectively split the right wing vote to put Labour in power with that huge majority. Add the Tory and Reform vote in many constituencies and they would have returned a Tory.

On 14 July 2025, LibDem Sarah Olney introduced a Private Members’ Bill - the Elections (Proportional Representation) Bill. Like most Private Members’ Bill it will probably go nowhere.

A different Petition was launched to support the Bill. It closes on 1 February 2026. It has managed to garner only 115 signatures so this too will die a death. The names of MPs who have signed do included Jenrick, Kruger, Tice and former Reform MPs Lowe and McMurdock. Anderson’s and Pochin’s names are missing and I don’t suppose Farage can be bothered.

www.parallelparliament.co.uk/petitions/732593/government-to-support-the-elections-proportional-representation-bill/constituencies

One would think the underrepresented parties would make more effort to gain support for this from their constituents.

electoral-reform.org.uk/which-uk-political-parties-support-proportional-representation/

Labour has now rowed back on its 2022 Conference commitment to PR no doubt because it is in power but unless things change over the next three years, we are heading for a hung parliament in 2029 and all the horse trading that goes with that … and still most people won’t be represented at national level.

Jean-Jacques Rousseau was right when he wrote in 1762: The English people believes itself to be free; it is gravely mistaken; it is free only during the election of Members of Parliament; as soon as the Members are elected, the people is enslaved; it is nothing.

Other than wider enfranchisement, nothing has changed.

Signed!

Actually I am hoping that this latest defection does harm to Reform and strengthens the conservative party. I am not a Conservative voter but we need a decent opposition that voters will support rather than being driven into the arms of Farage and his band of chancers. I can understand why dispirited voters might want change and be tempted to vote for Reform but I'd ask them to look across the pond to see where this has got the US. I genuinely think Farage/Reform would take us to a very dark place that would continue the divisions in society rather than try to heal them.

Petition calling for an automatic by-election when MPs cross the floor

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/737660

Oreo

Allira

foxie48

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

I do think he should resign and stand for re-election.
He is not representing his constituents any more.

Of course, he could be re-elected if he is popular enough but the people of Newark are the ones to decide.

You’re absolutely right.

I would be very annoyed if my MP did that.

And astonished (she's Labour).

MaizieD

Calling for a by-election is pointless.

There have been a number of MPs who have 'crossed the floor' in the last few years, prompting calls for a by-election, but there never has been one.

Jenrick is the fifth MP to defect in the past 3 years. Also MPs, such as Corbyn, who have lost their party whip. No by-elections.

If they had the courage of their convictions then they should resign as an MP to give their constituents a chance to choose an MP who represents them.

Could Jenrick then stand as a Reform candidate?

I absolutely believe that when an elected MP defects to another party there should be a by election. Only the constituency have the right to decide whether they prefer the mam (or woman) or the party.

GrannyGravy13

Well done Kemi 👏👏👏

She has denied him his moment of defection glory.

I agree, though I don’t like her much, imo, she played a blinder here

We don’t know as yet what the people in his constituency will do in regard to him, they will either think him a turn coat or think he’s seen the light.

Allira

foxie48

It is clear from the last general election results that the voters in Newark did not want a Reform MP.

Robert Jenrick

votes 20,968
share 39.2%
share change -23.9

Labour, Saj Ahmad

votes 17,396
share 32.5%
share change +8.6

Reform UK, Robert Palmer

votes 8,280
share 15.5%
share change +15.2

I do think he should resign and stand for re-election.
He is not representing his constituents any more.

Of course, he could be re-elected if he is popular enough but the people of Newark are the ones to decide.

You’re absolutely right.

Mollygo

In case you don’t know. (C&P)
Difference Between Debate and Discussion | Comparison of ...
Debate is a structured, oppositional exchange where participants argue to win by proving their side right, often with rules and an audience, while discussion is a collaborative conversation focused on exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions, with less formal structure and an emphasis on joint insight. Key differences lie in their goals (winning vs. understanding), structure (formal vs. informal), and tone (adversarial vs. collaborative.

So if you’re determined to win you’ll be debating and if you’re more interested in collaborative conversation, exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions then you’re in a discussion.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

An MP’s job is to represent all of their constituents whether they voted for them or not.

Sadly, they don’t end up doing so at a national level as they are bound by the party system and whipped to vote for policies they may not agree with and suspended if they rebel.

I’d rather an Independent any day of the week.

Most winning candidates in an election poll considerably less than 50%. More voters don’t want the winning candidate than do. Who represents them in a partisan system?

The Christian Wakeford example is interesting. He crossed the floor from Tory to Labour in 2022 and was subject to heavy criticism from Farage for not submitting to a by-election.

But … when he won the Bury South seat in 2019 for the Tories, he gained only 43.8% of the vote, 22,024 votes. The second placed candidate was Labour’s Lucy Burke with 43% 21,632 votes, a difference of only 402.

One could argue that it was so close, that when he defected, Labour was now getting a turn at being represented nationally.

When Wakeford stood again in 2024, he held the seat for Labour with 45.6% of the vote, 9360 votes ahead of his nearest rival, the Tory. The combined Tory and Reform vote was still 2,496 behind. Maybe he’s a good constituency man or won the seat on the general swing to Labour.

Unless defecting Tories, Kruger and Jenrick were working hard in their constituencies on local matters that they then raised in the HoC and that service has diminished or diminishes now they have joined Reform, how is it going to make a difference? Labour has such a large majority that six Reform votes are unlikely to be crucial in any division where Labour and Tories are opposed.

I should add that Kruger won his seat with only 35.7% and Jenrick only 39,2%, so far more voters didn't want them than did. When over 60% of people are not being represented, it usually makes little difference where the incumbent sits.

We desperately need Proportional Representation and Labour would be wise to start the ball rolling on this. Wales has the D’Hondt system. Why not in England too?

True Allira
How can they be representing the people who voted for them as a member of one party, when they’ve changed the party they represent? Unless they are re-elected.

Casdon

You have misunderstood MaizieD, we all know that the chance of a by election in this instance is negligible. What many of us agree though is that the rules should change, so that in future an MP has to submit to a by election if he or she wishes to defect,

Definitely.
They are not representing their constituents.

In case you don’t know. (C&P)
Difference Between Debate and Discussion | Comparison of ...
Debate is a structured, oppositional exchange where participants argue to win by proving their side right, often with rules and an audience, while discussion is a collaborative conversation focused on exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions, with less formal structure and an emphasis on joint insight. Key differences lie in their goals (winning vs. understanding), structure (formal vs. informal), and tone (adversarial vs. collaborative.

So if you’re determined to win you’ll be debating and if you’re more interested in collaborative conversation, exploring ideas, sharing perspectives, and reaching mutual understanding or solutions then you’re in a discussion.

The point is that Farage was vociferous in condemning Christian Wakeford and Labour when he crossed the floor writing in the DT, If he had any integrity, Christian Wakeford would call a by-election. but is silent when MPs cross the floor to Reform.

I suppose it depends on whether it makes a difference to how Parliament functions. With only five and now six MPs and few friends, Reform has no power in the HoC. I don't think any of them have committee positions.

Contrast when Philip Lee left the Conservatives to join the Liberal Democrats in September 2019. He left the government with no working majority.

Currently, the Tories have 118 seats and the Lib Dems 72. There would have to be a sizeable exodus of sitting Tories to change how the House works.

All the other former Tory MPs joining Reform don’t count for anything until 2029 and only then if they are put up as candidates. They bring experience but it means nothing for the next three years.

You have misunderstood MaizieD, we all know that the chance of a by election in this instance is negligible. What many of us agree though is that the rules should change, so that in future an MP has to submit to a by election if he or she wishes to defect,

Calling for a by-election is pointless.

There have been a number of MPs who have 'crossed the floor' in the last few years, prompting calls for a by-election, but there never has been one.

Jenrick is the fifth MP to defect in the past 3 years. Also MPs, such as Corbyn, who have lost their party whip. No by-elections.

Marg75

I don't think it's just what I perceive as the state of the country, it's there for all to see. Yes I do think that Reform with the people they are assembling will make a difference and pull back us back from the brink. We certainly can't go on with Labour and the Conservatives have obviously had their time.

I so agree with you 👏👏👏

Walter the Weasel accepts your apology.
😁

Allira

Doodledog

MollyNew

Serves him right, treacherous weasel.

That comment has made me laugh out loud (literally)😂

I'm making no comment on my feelings about Jenrick (I assume they can be surmised), but it tickled me. I don't know what weasels do to be assumed treacherous, but you never hear of a good one, do you?

What, treacherous - me? I'm just a sweet pussy cat.
How dare you compare me to that treacherous snake-in-the-grass Jenrick!

May I take this opportunity to apologise to all innocent weasels

So many mentions of defection that I’m only relieved that so far the spelling and use of the word is correct 😁 maybe I spend too much time on pedants corner.