Robert Jenrick has been sacked

That isn’t really the question though Primrose53, it is whether the defection of Jenrick will boost or reduce Reform’s standing with the public, and whether it will improve the status of the Tories with the public?

Doodledog

Primrose was your post in answer to the question of what it is that we are on the brink of? I’m still no wiser. You have listed opinions- some I share, some I don’t and others are too vague to understand (eg ‘his Marxist principles’ doesn’t mean anything). You have not said what or where the brink might be. Brink of what?

How can people debate if we don’t know what is being discussed?

I think you have confused me with someone else Doodledog

DaisyAnneReturns

Marg75

Thank you Primrose 53, I was hoping, after three pages, that someone would agree with me.

Doesn't that tell you you may be in a minority?

Only on here maybe! In real life there is now massive support for Reform. 😉

I don’t think Starmer is a Marxist, tho he did support Corbyn , another mistake.
The electorate want a change from the failed Tory policies but don’t want more of the same from Labour, or even worse!
Which is why Reform is riding high in the polls.

The idea that Starmer is a Marxist is so far from reality.

What is our country on the brink of? Farrage and his troop of failed tories hasn’t spelled out policies I’m aware of. Other than privatising the health service. A party with Jenerick and Lee Anderson inspires zero confidence

But what are Reforms actual policies away from immigration?

I certainly don't think supporter of Reform are stupid but I do think Reform is selling easy answers to difficult questions and their supporters are forming a queue to buy them. When I look at the history of so many of Reform's political members, the number of them who have been tarnished by misbehaviour or criminality I do question why anyone would give them their support. Not everyone's vote will be cast on the basis of immigration, some of us have wider concerns and I sincerely hope we never have a Reform government.

GrannyGravy13

This thread has reminded me why I seldom post in the N & P threads nowadays 🤦‍♀️

You are missed GrannyGravy13. I think most people do want to have a proper discussion, with different points of view being expressed, rather than confrontation.

Primrose was your post in answer to the question of what it is that we are on the brink of? I’m still no wiser. You have listed opinions- some I share, some I don’t and others are too vague to understand (eg ‘his Marxist principles’ doesn’t mean anything). You have not said what or where the brink might be. Brink of what?

How can people debate if we don’t know what is being discussed?

It isnt as simple as that. There are numerous subjects where it is a question of opinion, take abortion, there are very strong views on either side of that debate, there isnt one truth on that subject, there are opinions. Obviously many statements on issues can be challenged, if someone says the eath is flat you can show that is not true, if someone says I think the housing crisis is one of the most significant issues for young people then you could debate that opinion, there wouldn't be an absolute truth there but rather a range of views.

This thread has reminded me why I seldom post in the N & P threads nowadays 🤦‍♀️

Marg75

But that's debate isn't it? What one person perceives as true, another may see as something else. I think what he said about our country today is true in my eyes, you may not see that, but sadly neither the Conservatives nor the Labour party are capable of doing anything about it.

NO that isn't debate! This may help you see that much of what us said on GN - such bringing us back from the "brink" - is simply gossip.

Gossip doesn’t care much whether something is true
Discussion cares about finding what’s true
Debate cares about defending what’s claimed to be true

What are we facing?
Well, at a rough guess:
Four years of a failing PM sticking to his Marxist principles with absolutely no intention of going;
an inept Chancellor and front bench,
failing education system ,
failing utilities, specifically water,
over burdened but wastefully funded health system,
burgeoning welfare state supporting the workshy
rising taxation
immigration, legal and illegal
Conservatives beginning to form a credible opposition undermined by infighting self servers whilst in government, now defecting to a party led by a maverick;
No concern in any of the parties for the electorate who put them there in the first place.

That do to be going on with?

Not forgetting the volatile world situation: Russia, China, far and middle East, Ukraine and of course, Trump.
I have never felt fearful facing the future.
I do now.

For some reason I can’t always quote from my phone, but DAR asked on the previous page ‘what brink?’

I’d like to ask the same question. ‘Pull the UK back from the brink’ of what? I do wish the trend (or whatever it is) of speaking in vague metaphors would stop. It’s so difficult to know what people are talking about.

Of what are we on the brink, please? Some specifics would be good - not something like ‘the brink of falling off a cliff’.

I agree with you Marg75.... There's too many posters on this forum who 'know it all' and think people who support Reform are all stupid..

I think rancid is a good word to describe how this thread has become. I'm not in the minority as we'll see on May 7th

'It has finally happened. In a rare moment of brutal self awareness, Reform UK has stopped pretending to be a grassroots revolt and admitted what Westminster has long whispered, it is Britain’s political knacker’s yard. A secure paddock for Conservative MPs and ex MPs whose reputations have become so rancid that even the modern Tory party has quietly backed away holding a peg on its nose'
...copied from facebook....

Marg75

I don't think it's just what I perceive as the state of the country, it's there for all to see. Yes I do think that Reform with the people they are assembling will make a difference and pull back us back from the brink. We certainly can't go on with Labour and the Conservatives have obviously had their time.

But Reform ( in its current incarnation) just consists mainly of people from said Conservative Party along with Ann Widdecombe and Nadine Dorries. And how can a party that includes someone like Lee Anderson be regarded as the saviour of this country?

Marg75

Thank you Primrose 53, I was hoping, after three pages, that someone would agree with me.

Doesn't that tell you you may be in a minority?

Marg75

I don't think it's just what I perceive as the state of the country, it's there for all to see. Yes I do think that Reform with the people they are assembling will make a difference and pull back us back from the brink. We certainly can't go on with Labour and the Conservatives have obviously had their time.

What brink?

Oh yes I’m also eager to hear who the Labour defector is !
It’s presumably someone described as being slightly to the Right of the party -
Wes Streeting is the only name which comes to mind.
It will probably be someone I have never heard of though.

Not sure about Jenrick. Self-serving?

I find it impossible to believe that Reform can offer anything new and improved to British politics when they mainly consist of secondhand Tories, Lee Anderson and a few right wing millionaires and/or ex bankers such as their leader. Not very inspiring at all.

Sarnia Peter Mandelson? That would be the supreme irony.

Casdon

We are not by any stretch ‘at the brink’ whatever that means. The UK is going through hard times, as is the rest of the world. Reform, with its ragbag of mavericks and defectors, does not hold any keys to our future success as a country in my opinion, and I think if a few more Tories from the right of the party defect, the centre right will prevail and the Tories will be back in business.

Ooh I do hope you are right. I shudder to think of Reform being anywhere near Number 10. Farage reckons he is unveiling a Labour figure next week. Who might that be?

Thank you Primrose 53, I was hoping, after three pages, that someone would agree with me.