Robert Jenrick has been sacked

Foxie48 totally agree

I think Farage appeals to some because he tries to put an acceptable face on unacceptable views. I believe he's racist, antisemitic and has strong fascist tendencies, however currently he'll bend his views according to where he sees the opportunity to make money. He mixes in strange company and IMO he's always for sale at the right price. However like Trump he tells people who feel left out of society what they want to hear and like Trump, if he gets into power, he'll be too busy feathering his own nest to bother about the people who put him in power.

I see that Farage was too unwell to be grilled by Kuenssberg yesterday but was well enough to appear on tv today. How anyone can take any of them seriously is beyond me.

Jennerdysphoria

Sadgrandma

I believe Reform is changing its name to ‘New Tory’.
😬

Or 'Retreat' as someone suggested above.

That may have been me . Childish I know, but if you start your name with "Re" it's too tempting to come up with others. It's looking rather liked 'Rehashed' currently.

Just a side issue really as this thread is all the place but a point on Reform's commitment and whether they can be taken seriously as a party.

Watching parliamentlive.tv this afternoon.

Not one Reform MP in the HoC for some very important questions on education to Bridget Phillipson and Georgia Gould.

MPs there from Labour, Tories (Shadow Secretary for Education Laura Trott was there), LibDems (spokesperson Munira Wilson) and Greens (spokesperson Ellie Chowns) but not Reform.

Who is Reform education spokesperson? AI tells me the position is vacant. If they want to be taken seriously as a party and possibly a future government they need to focus on all issues not just their pet topic.

If the Greens with only four MPs can have an education spokeperson why can’t Reform who have had four from the start of this Parliament and five since September?

Sadgrandma

I believe Reform is changing its name to ‘New Tory’.
😬

Or 'Retreat' as someone suggested above.

foxie48

Graphite very happy to be proved wrong. As I said , the normal practice is to sit as an independent but Johnson's reign as PM certainly shook things up and not in a good way. Actually I do read through threads I'm interested in but reading through my post I realise that I have written it incorrectly. I meant to say moving from a party that is NOT in government to one that is, moving the other way is not at all uncommon.

Oh. I see.

The only ones I can find in more recent years are:

1999 Shaun Woodward crossed from Tory to Blair’s Labour unhappy with the direction of the party under William Hague.

2005 Robert Jackson crossed from Tory to Labour after a diagreement about funding for higher education.

2007 Quentin Davies crossed from Tory to Labour unhappy with the direction of the Tories under Cameron.

2023 Lisa Cameron crossed from SNP to Tory citing 'toxic and bullying' treatment from colleagues.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_politicians_who_have_changed_party_affiliation

It’s rare - not unlike voter flow. There’s not much movement between dark blue and red. It’s mostly dark blue to turquoise. How Labour won the 2024 election, really. Reform split the Tory vote.

Primrose53

eazybee

I watch. Starmer in action at PMQ, and generally am astonished at how poor his frequently rude responses are. As a lawyer I expected him to be a fluent and persuasive speaker with facts and figures at his fingertips; he clearly is not, and appears to resent the temerity of MPs asking him questions. Witness the reduction of time for PMQs.
I have no insider information as to the conduct of government, as some posters believe they do. I write as an ordinary member of the electorate viewing with increasing alarm the mess Starmer is making of government.

A mess indeed eazybee!

He pledged to sort out the migrant crisis and has done nothing of the sort. Since he came to power 19 months ago, 65, 874 migrants have crossed the channel in boats. It just goes on and on. What an absolute mess.

And yet, I’m assuming you supported Brexit which lost us the Dublin agreement?

I’m surprised that so many people are worried about the changes the government has agreed to. This is simply democracy at work. Parliament exists to debate, amend, and decide policy. With a large majority, much of the opposition is likely to come from within the government’s own ranks. Some MPs may try to strengthen their personal or factional positions, which is not democracy but politics. The right will inevitably portray these normal democratic processes as a crisis, just as the left would if the roles were reversed.

"Since Labour came to power in mid-2024,
net migration to the UK has fallen significantly, dropping by roughly two-thirds from record highs (around 900,000 in 2023) to approximately 204,000 in the year ending June 2025"

I find it interesting that the focus on immigration is always on those seeking asylum whilst this is a fraction of our immigration figures!

I hear that grassroots Reform supporters are now deserting the party in numbers because of Robert Jenrick, as of course migration was his remit. Apparently they feel it’s not what they signed up for.

It goes on and on, but more failed asylum seekers are being removed. So, much better than the Tories managed.

eazybee

I watch. Starmer in action at PMQ, and generally am astonished at how poor his frequently rude responses are. As a lawyer I expected him to be a fluent and persuasive speaker with facts and figures at his fingertips; he clearly is not, and appears to resent the temerity of MPs asking him questions. Witness the reduction of time for PMQs.
I have no insider information as to the conduct of government, as some posters believe they do. I write as an ordinary member of the electorate viewing with increasing alarm the mess Starmer is making of government.

A mess indeed eazybee!

He pledged to sort out the migrant crisis and has done nothing of the sort. Since he came to power 19 months ago, 65, 874 migrants have crossed the channel in boats. It just goes on and on. What an absolute mess.

Graphite very happy to be proved wrong. As I said , the normal practice is to sit as an independent but Johnson's reign as PM certainly shook things up and not in a good way. Actually I do read through threads I'm interested in but reading through my post I realise that I have written it incorrectly. I meant to say moving from a party that is NOT in government to one that is, moving the other way is not at all uncommon.

foxie48

Menopauselbitch

Primrose53

Nobody defecting to Labour then? 🤣🤣🤣

Precisely.

I can't find a single example of an MP crossing the floor from a party that is in government to a party that isn't. The usual practice, if leaving a party which is in government, is to sit as an independent. I'm happy to be proved wrong but I couldn't find anyone in recent times.

Then you are not reading the thread.

I have already written that in September 2019, Tory MP Phillip Lee crossed the floor to join the Liberal Democrats, while Boris Johnson was speaking. This meant the Tories lost their working majority in the HoC.

In 2022, Christian Wakeford crossed the floor from the Tories to Labour causing Farage to write a very angry piece for the Telegraph call him a dishonorable member for not submitting to a by-election. Wakeford was reelected in 2024 for Labour.

Madgran77

*Allira The U turns have been rather disappointing though, but I suppose it means they are listening. Perhaps Reeves will be his Achilles heel*

They wouldnt need to "listen" if they thought strategically re all aspects of the policies they are announcing including all aspects of consequences BEFORE making their announcements ....too much initial approaching of a policy as a money saving strategy without considering the impact in practice. They then have to U turn because of the potential consequences once identified

I'm inclined to agree, Madgran*. It is very disappointing.

It's no good trying to scrape money from those who are essential for society in various ways, eg farmers, the hospitality industry, hospices (!) and failing to deal with those who evade taxes and become extremely wealthy as a result.

Menopauselbitch

Primrose53

Nobody defecting to Labour then? 🤣🤣🤣

Precisely.

I can't find a single example of an MP crossing the floor from a party that is in government to a party that isn't. The usual practice, if leaving a party which is in government, is to sit as an independent. I'm happy to be proved wrong but I couldn't find anyone in recent times.

I have read most of Jenrick's speech and I have, in all honesty, to say that he has got some of it right, though I gave up when he launched into his long and mendacious diatribe about immigration.

Like Chocolatelovinggran I put the blame squarely on the tories, starting with Thatcher, who, by her hatred of the unions and of state provision of utilities and her embrace of what is known as 'neoliberal' economic policies (following Reagan in the US) she managed to largely destroy our heavy industries without putting anything in their place and privatise as much as she possibly dared of state provided utilities and services. Her destruction of 'the state' was carried on by her successors and the neoliberal economic strategies have become the 'orthodoxy' which can barely be shaken today and which has contributed to the ever increasing concentration of wealth in the hands of a few and the ever widening gap in inequality. Not to mention Osborne's 'austerity' strategy which intensified the damage she had already done and has left us in the position we are in now with public services over whelmed and inadequate. And, of course, led to the Brexit disaster.

Her major iniquity was to instil the belief that a country's budget should be run like a household budget; a belief which has gripped governments, both Labour and tory, ever since and lies at the heart of our problems.

Regrettably, Labour cannot shake off this belief and if anyone is looking to Reform to improve the economy, and so their wellbeing, is sadly mistaken.

I'm disappointed in the u- turns, too, but am slightly heartened by the thought that people recognising they have made a mistake attempt to put it right.
Mrs Thatcher, of course, was famous for " the lady's not for turning", which indicated that she had absolute belief in her every decision being right, which I would say was arrogance.
Controversially, I would nominate Margaret Thatcher as one of the worst Prime Ministers of modern times, due to her selling off water, utilities etc al, enriching her then government, and leaving consumers today stuck with activities such as water companies unable to deliver water to homes, but able to pay their shareholders dividends.
I know that this will put the cat amongst the proverbial pigeons, as there are many who revere her, to this day
I do not understand the antipathy to Mr Starmer: he seems a safe, slightly dull person.
After the drama of Ms Truss and Mr Johnson, I quite welcome how he has handled some very unexpected developments internationally.

Allira The U turns have been rather disappointing though, but I suppose it means they are listening. Perhaps Reeves will be his Achilles heel

They wouldnt need to "listen" if they thought strategically re all aspects of the policies they are announcing including all aspects of consequences BEFORE making their announcements ....too much initial approaching of a policy as a money saving strategy without considering the impact in practice. They then have to U turn because of the potential consequences once identified

Did anyone on here actually listen to Robert Jenrick's speech this evening? Can you actually say that what he described about this country today was untrue? Marg75

No, we can’t say what he described was untrue. But we can say it was selective, exaggerated in tone, and designed to persuade rather than to fully explain.

Menopausalbitch but he contributed totally to what he describes so needs to accept some blame!!
My local area is full of vigour, lovely people , potholes, multicultural communities and rubbish weather but it certainly is not broken !!

Primrose53

Nobody defecting to Labour then? 🤣🤣🤣

Precisely.

Marg75

Did anyone on here actually listen to Robert Jenrick's speech this evening? Can you actually say that what he described about this country today was untrue?

👏👏👏

It gets weirder and weirder.
news.sky.com/story/robert-jenrick-told-kemi-badenoch-to-kick-liz-truss-out-of-the-conservatives-13496078