We can all visit China now.

Aren’t we doing trade deals with India and their human rights record isn’t that good ( and they still have the caste system I believe?).

My daughter spent several months in China prior to going to uni. She worked as a volunteer at a huge school teaching English. She loved China and the Chinese people she met, who made her very welcome. I've been to Hong Kong since it was returned to China but not to the mainland but I'd definitely visit if I could. tbh I'd rather go to China ATM than to the US.

My ex husband went there with his job and he loved it, too.

There was a period of about 10 years, when if you were covered by a large employer, you were relatively ok.
My experience and opinion.

Our universities make (made? now that our visa system has been hardened up)) a great deal of money from Chinese students. Durham Uni. Business School was almost entirely populated with Chinese students. Foreign students are charged far more for tuition than UK students...

I assume that the Chinese government funds them.

Nottingham Uni is twinned with one in China.

Chocolatelovinggran

Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?
Are the activities of other leaders being villified, or just ours?

Yes, I wonder about that, too, Chocolatelovinggran.
I think any having opportunity to have a dig at the current Prime Minister is what many love to do. He’s not my favourite person, in some respects, but I do think things like this and behind the scenes discussions are something he seems quite skilled at. Time will tell, I suppose.

There's an old saying "Keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
Having some dealings with China could be an advantage. Shutting them out means we have no way to communicate.
China could be dangerous as like other super powers it wants take over as much of the world as it can.
No different to the US in that respect.

Perhaps keeping them closer means we can keep an eye on them.

MayBee70

Aren’t we doing trade deals with India and their human rights record isn’t that good ( and they still have the caste system I believe?).

There is a caste system unofficially, in practice marriages are within each caste, however the lowest caste, the untouchables have many more opportunities than in the past. Its poverty in general that blights India.

However it is the largest democracy by far and is developing fast with high growth rates. Their tech industry is massive but like China they have been very protectionist. We visited India last spring, not just the tourist areas, we didnt see another westerner for 8 days. Compared to 10 yrs ago there are many changes much less poverty, infinitely less pollution, traffic chaos remains.

Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?

Quite simply because he is a toady.
Attempts to be authoritarian at home, riding roughshod over conventions such as elections, protection of military veterans, making detrimental deals over territories, turning on those who have supported him, whilst grovelling to those who have power.

eazybee

^Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?^

Quite simply because he is a toady.
Attempts to be authoritarian at home, riding roughshod over conventions such as elections, protection of military veterans, making detrimental deals over territories, turning on those who have supported him, whilst grovelling to those who have power.

Ouch, vert close to the truth

eazybee

^Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?^

Quite simply because he is a toady.
Attempts to be authoritarian at home, riding roughshod over conventions such as elections, protection of military veterans, making detrimental deals over territories, turning on those who have supported him, whilst grovelling to those who have power.

Spot on 👍

eazybee

^Why are negotiations with other countries by our Prime Minister seen as " grovelling", or " toadying"?^

Quite simply because he is a toady.
Attempts to be authoritarian at home, riding roughshod over conventions such as elections, protection of military veterans, making detrimental deals over territories, turning on those who have supported him, whilst grovelling to those who have power.

👏👏👏👏👏👏

Oreo

silverlining48

My dd is still there, travelling alone, and has met nothing but kindness on her travels. ( thank goodness).
The photos and videos she has sent are full of colour, smiling faces, strange looking food, and lots of random dancing on the street by grans and grands.

I think it could be said of just about every country that tourists and those who go to work there short term or long term will be met by kindness and often generosity at times.
It’s not the people who you will meet in China that are the problem but the regime in charge.Much like in Iran for example.

Oreo Correct.

We enjoyed China in 2005, people were delightful, wonderful experience. We won't return, human rights and the current regime.

Its often true ….you like the people you meet but don’t always agree with their government.

We went to Bejing on a Round the World cruise ... It was the only place we got scammed in all of the Ports of Call. Hated it ... went from dirty smelly places to very over polished places ...

We went about 10 years ago, mainly to see the Terracotta Army in Xi’an and toured around whilst there.
While I don’t approve of their human rights etc we found the people to be lovely and extremely welcoming, certainly not unfriendly and rude.
We were invited into homes to have meals with them in several villages (interesting!) in fact blonde hair is thought to be very lucky and I was pestered by school children to be allowed to stroke it!! Fine the first couple of days but got tiresome very quickly!
Yes we needed a visa but no different to many other countries.

Out of interest I just checked and found most of Europe as well as further afield already get free Chinese visas for up to 30 days.
It’s just us and a few random others who have had to pay, it wasn’t cheap.

Been to China several times. Not an easy place to visit independently but some amazing sites. Only times I ate outside of western hotels I got food poisoning. I found incredibly welcoming people, lots of staring at light coloured hair and people wanting to take photos of us even in cites like Shanghai and Beijing.

My (blond) dd speaks some mandarin, and has been travelling independently all over China on her own, without a problem.
She is still there so wonder why you say it’s not easy to visit independently knspol ? Should I be worried ?

A long way to go for a takeaeay.
Do they do Deliveroo?
What a load of all tut!

Again Starmer acceptng crumbs from the table.

What a big girls blouse thus so called man is.

My son has lived in Shanghai for a few years now, married a gorgeous Chinese girl & they have a son who is 9.
We’ve been out there 3 times, it’s an amazing place to visit.

I visited China a few years age with my husband and found Chinese people very polite, and once they found out we were English, very curious. When we produced a camera it was as if a director had said “lights action camera” people appeared as if by magic from miles around to be in the photograph we were taking of the two girls we had been talking to, (they all want to learn to speak English. They are nice people.

GrannyGravy13

According to the Chinese spokesman the visa free travel deal is still at the negotiating stage and not a done deal 🤷‍♀️

...and won't be a done deal until the Mega Embassy is completed and they are building Chinese Junk cars at the old Vauxhall plant at Ellesmere Port and have stolen the IP from Astra Zeneca regarding the vaccine technology.

silverlining48

Out of interest I just checked and found most of Europe as well as further afield already get free Chinese visas for up to 30 days.
It’s just us and a few random others who have had to pay, it wasn’t cheap.

I didn't think we needed visas anyway for short-term holiday visits?
Or is that just Hong Kong, which we have visited?