I deplore Jim Ratcliffe's words. (owner of Man U)

If these words had been said by a public figure 20 or even 10 years ago there would have been such an outcry that he would have been forced to grovel and apologise. It is good that we have now moved on to having a more robust debate on such matters. There are entire areas of the UK where the shop signs are all in foreign languages. If you go into them you are made to feel unwelcome in your own country. I dont think he used the wrong word.

Kadinsky: 'They were immigrants to the UK, two of them from Tunisia and one from Iraq or Kuwait'.

I'm aware that Kadinsky 2 of the terrorists were from Tunisia etc. My question was "what has this "isis inspired terrorist plot" got to do with Jim Radcliffe's recent comments about UK being "colonised by immigrants"?

Flippen2 23.11- in what way and did you find my replies sarcastic, as I cant see that you have fair grounds for your accusation. Here is our exchange:

Flippen2; "I agree with him, he didn't put it the right way but...and also why is it that when you agree you're classed as racist?..."

Lemonjam: If he put his view in the 'wrong' way what alternative form of words do you suggest Radcliffe should have used instead? The actual words he used have been widely condemned as divisive, inflammatory and racist. Are you saying you agreed with the words he actually used, that he should not have been classed as 'racist" and if you used those words yourself people then be wrong to 'class' you of being racist?

Flippen2: "Lemon jam- No I'm saying that some people immediately class others as racist because their view is different...my view,I don't believe the people coming over on the boats should be given priority housing over the amount of British citizens,no matter what colour or creed.. this is not the land of milk and honey they think it's going to be".

Lomonjam: That's not what Radcliffe said however. It's not clear what posters are actually agreeing with when they say they agree with what Radcliffe said but then explain they mean something different to what he actually said...Thanks for clarifying.

Lemon jam,your reply to me seemed to be sarcastic,I don't agree with you therefore I must be racist,you don't know a single thing about me...my colour,my background,yet you immediately define me

He didnt apologise, he used that well worm phrase,

"I'm sorry if I upset...blah blah."

That's never an apology, is it? In our everyday lives when someone has done something quite harmful to us, we know the difference very well indeed.

Its so sad that football, which has worked so hard to combat racism on the field and by spectators, towards the many different cultural backgrounds of the players, is now in the spotlight as a space for racism.

Jim Ratcliffe is a lifelong ManU fan, but his main activities in football are his investments in many international clubs.

Yet before he spoke out, Man U had a proud record of being against racism. The Guardian - before this incident

“Manchester United prides itself on being an inclusive and welcoming club,” a statement said. “Our diverse group of players, staff and global community of supporters, reflect the history and heritage of Manchester; a city that anyone can call home.

Look what the club stated:

Since launching All Red All Equal in 2016, we have embedded equality, diversity and inclusion into everything we do. We remain deeply committed to the principles and spirit of that campaign

LemonJam

Oreo and Kadinsky- what has this "isis inspired terrorist plot" got to do with Jim Radcliffe's recent comments about UK being "colonised by immigrants"?

They were immigrants to the UK, two of them from Tunisia and one from Iraq or Kuwait.

You may think that, Graphite, I couldn’t possibly comment!
(Not without the incoming wrath, anyway).

Casdon

If they merged we would have the Advance, Reform and Restore Party. ARRS for short.

Add in the Olés - the Spanish Costas contingent headed up by Yaxley Lennon and his thugs and what do you have?

Casdon:' If they merged we would have the Advance, Reform and Restore Party. ARRS for short" - very funny 🤣.

Primrose53

Casdon It was Starmer himself who used the phrase “island of strangers”.

Yes, and your point is?

Oreo and Kadinsky- what has this "isis inspired terrorist plot" got to do with Jim Radcliffe's recent comments about UK being "colonised by immigrants"?

Primrose53

Casdon It was Starmer himself who used the phrase “island of strangers”.

That’s true!

Primrose53

Here is his apology.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd6zvlywz77o

I would have preferred him not to apologise at all, he’s entitled to his opinion.
Incidentally regarding tax, do you know how much he’s paid over the many years here in the UK? Neither do I but it must be more than all of us put together have paid over the years.
He’s in his seventies now so if he never pays in a penny more he will have done his bit.

Casdon It was Starmer himself who used the phrase “island of strangers”.

MG55

Kandinsky

MG55
Re/. Your photo.
What are your thoughts on this latest news item?

Two men who planned to target the Jewish community in Manchester in what police said could have been "the UK's most deadly terror attack" have been jailed for life.
Walid Saadaoui, 38, and Amar Hussein, 52, arranged for guns to be smuggled into the UK as part of an "Isis-inspired plot", Preston Crown Court heard.
They were caught by an undercover operative who played a "crucial role" in foiling their plans, Greater Manchester Police said.

It is a very worrying situation and thank goodness the police picked up on it.
Hate of any group of people is untenable 🙁

Hate, we can live with ( and do) this was going to be an all out attack using different guns, assault rifles.The death toll would have been very high, they intended going after old, young, women as well as men and said if they got some Christians as well it would be a bonus.

Here is Pep Guardiola. What a sensible response.
news.sky.com/video/pep-guardiola-reacts-to-sir-jim-ratcliffes-immigrants-comment-13507311

Here is his apology.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd6zvlywz77o

Whitewavemark2

Ratcliffe has admitted his comments were racist and cause for division in our society.

All those who agree with Ratcliffe - ergo ………………..

That is how bad racism is in this country.

He didn’t admit anything of the sort.

If they merged we would have the Advance, Reform and Restore Party. ARRS for short.

....and the latest news is that only about an hour ago a new political party has been formed. That being "Restore Britain" - has literally just been officially founded by Rupert Lowe.

Now this should be interesting - to say the least. He says it's going to be launched across the country - and I think he does mean the whole country - not just England. I've only got as far to date as quick ask myself whether I'd stand for it - and quick conclusion - possibly yes if I lived in one of our larger cities, bit of a chance if I lived in my own city, living in West or North Wales (ie I'm in West Wales) = I'd have concerns about doing so personally...

Time will tell how this is going to go - other than it is clearly going to get quite a bit of support I would think....

westendgirl

I understand what you’re saying.
But my point is ( and btw, my parents came to England from Southern Ireland in 1950 ) Irish immigrants speak English. I have a massive extended family both here and in Ireland and every single one of them speak English. ( as well as Gaelic )
Ireland is a Christian country ( ok mostly Catholic but you know what I mean )
Their way of life is not that different to ours, no different I’d say.

What you said here:

I was taught by someone from Southern Ireland who spoke Gaelic, who talked about cutting peat for the fire and about children not having shoes.It really does depend when Grandma came here.

You could be talking about someone from Scotland there.

Anyway, I’m starting to feel like I’m banging my head against a brick wall so I’ll leave you to it.

Opal 19.32 -is it a problem for you if people with shared interests, occupations, religions or nationalities live in a particular area in any town or city as in your definition?

When I googled Radcliffes word yesterday i.e that the uk had specifically been “colonised” by immigrants I got the definition of colonised as a process of establishing control over areas or peoples for foreign people to advance their trade, cultivation, exploitation and possible settlement”. Ie like Britain did in when it invaded foreign territories with the aim to establish and expand the British Colonies and promote slave trade, exploit the indigenous people etc. That’s why so many criticised his remarks.

He is pointing out a sad reality. The rate of influx and lack of need to take on the receiving country's habits and language have turned some areas as foreign as parts of UK must have felt when the Normans first arrived. The UK will continue to exist but lets not pretend it is the country as was in the 1950 - 2000 period. Those who are outraged by his views may not have been in shops where the staff have never had an English speaking customer, and cannot serve them.

I should have added that we all get on.

Kandinsky, what does "Coming to the UK from Southern Ireland is not the same " mean. Not the same as what.?
I was taught by someone from Southern Ireland who spoke Gaelic, who talked about cutting peat for the fire and about children not having shoes.It really does depend when Grandma came here. It's interesting where I live as there are quite a lot of Irish people living in the same area. They have been here for many year and may have come to work on the railway. There is also a Polish sector , as many came over after the second world war. They have their own church and the children , who are bi lingual , go to Saturday school.I think it is quite natural to want to be with those who speak your language , know your customs while you are getting used to life in a different country.