Comments on immigrant benefits

Ratcliffe not Radcliffe.

I agree the McKellen video is very good- this 'problem' of immigration has always beena smokescreen to divert attention from the rich fleecing everyone and the tax payer in particular.

I posted that on the other thread but it went uncommented - too many things being discussed - yes it's a superb speech from Shakespeare on how we subhumanise people and "other" them as strangers - do watch.

I agree, OP: top opening. People arriving who want to work for their benefits whilst processing happens.

Not just that, but some people arriving have been tortured in their own country, and we treat them like dirt and refer to them little better, every time someone calls people "illegals" I indeed do wonder at our decency and "niceness" we pride ourselves on so much.

A quick venture into the worlds of Social Media from Reform propaganda shows such venom.

Wyllow3

I posted that on the other thread but it went uncommented - too many things being discussed - yes it's a superb speech from Shakespeare on how we subhumanise people and "other" them as strangers - do watch.

I agree, OP: top opening. People arriving who want to work for their benefits whilst processing happens.

Not just that, but some people arriving have been tortured in their own country, and we treat them like dirt and refer to them little better, every time someone calls people "illegals" I indeed do wonder at our decency and "niceness" we pride ourselves on so much.

A quick venture into the worlds of Social Media from Reform propaganda shows such venom.

👏👏👏👏👏

I think what Farage has latched onto is that it it so much easier, in nearly any society, to motivate people to hate and blame "others" than it is to get across the manifold reasons why things are as they are & the contribution from all of us that will help improve things.
Think the reason most recent politicians haven't done this is that it's basically immoral, but demagogue Trump has had such success with so little pushback that western politicians like Farage have been emboldened to use it as their own path to power.

Absolutely right ~valdavi. How DO we get this across to voters? Was at a surgery with local MP recently, who seemed resigned to Reform succeeding. Profoundly dispiriting.

You only have to look at what is happening in the US with ICE. This is not what most Americans wanted when they voted Trump but it's what they are getting all whilst Trump makes millions of dollars from corrupt practices and challenges every safeguard to democracy. If Reform voters can't see the connection, then there is no hope for them.

Yes to the OP and comments from the majority that share the concerns about ‘othering’ groups.

Recently, I saw Nuremberg at the cinema and To Kill a Mockingbird at the Lowry in Salford. Both were powerful reflections of the reality of blaming one group for all that’s wrong in society.

Today, Farage is presenting his cabinet in opposition, Jenrick centre stage. Let’s not forget this is the individual who wanted Disney cartoons removed from the walls where children were because he didn’t want them feeling too comfortable. Farage is making untrue statements about the numbers of non English speaking immigrants. Where’s the challenge ?

Although the title is about “Immigrant benefits” it seems to have veered of into a discussion about Reform.

Let me make it clear that I am very fearful of a country where reform is in Government and in no way support them.

But I think it is naive to suppose that people will vote for Reform purely because of views on immigration. They will vote for Reform because their own lives are intolerable and Kabour is doing nothing to improve them, neither did a Conservative government, so Reform is their last hope.

On the BBC website there is today an article about the plight of a Durham town. I urge you to read it and to try to understand why the people there have voted for a Reform council. Immigration is not the issue for them,

The way to stop Reform is not to castigate or label the people who are in despair and are looking for a party that will actually do something to improve their lives.

What is needed us recognition of their problems and action to improve their lives. They will vote for the party that makes an effort to do that.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2136jnjx1o

Yes, Lathyrus.
This is the article to which you referred.

Food for thought.

Lathyrus3

Although the title is about “Immigrant benefits” it seems to have veered of into a discussion about Reform.

Let me make it clear that I am very fearful of a country where reform is in Government and in no way support them.

But I think it is naive to suppose that people will vote for Reform purely because of views on immigration. They will vote for Reform because their own lives are intolerable and Kabour is doing nothing to improve them, neither did a Conservative government, so Reform is their last hope.

On the BBC website there is today an article about the plight of a Durham town. I urge you to read it and to try to understand why the people there have voted for a Reform council. Immigration is not the issue for them,

The way to stop Reform is not to castigate or label the people who are in despair and are looking for a party that will actually do something to improve their lives.

What is needed us recognition of their problems and action to improve their lives. They will vote for the party that makes an effort to do that.

Have just scanned through the article you mentioned and pretty sure this is the same place that Patrick Christys from GB News visited last week.

It was shocking. Streets of empty houses boarded up with false doors and windows so they don’t look so bad!

He spoke to a retired nurse who had lived there all her life and said it used to be a lovely community where everybody took great pride in their properties and the streets. She pointed out a primary school behind the houses which kids had to access via all these boarded up houses and she commented that it was depressing but they think it’s normal.

The report I mentioned is about Horden, county Durham. It is on YouTube and very depressing.

Emilymaria

I found many reactions to Jim Radcliffe’s words on immigrant ‘colonisation’ deeply disturbing. This is a person who has chosen to live outside Britain, who had no verifiable statistics to hand, and who will not live with the political fallout of his comments. Please remember the lessons learnt following Hitler’s demonisation of Jews, Romanies, Sinti and homosexuals. They were identified as the causes of Germany’s decline. Not true. He was deflecting the punition of Germany for its role in WWI. Immigrants to the UK are now being put in that same role to be despised and blamed. UK laws mean that immigrants CANNOT work until they have been ‘processed’. Many are desperate to do so. I have experience of teaching refugees - no-one would risk the journey to the UK unless they had to. And why here? Britain’s colonisation made English the most accessible language. A belief still exists that British people are ‘kinder’. Oh, if only I could advise them, given what I have read here and experienced outside. My blood runs cold at the thought of Reform gaining further ground in the UK, because it trades on prejudice, not facts, because it is not a political party but a limited company (check it out, with Farage as a director), because its leader fawns around Donald Trump - and because he has every intention of abolishing the NHS. Just look at how seldom he has held surgeries at his constituency in Clacton. How much confidence would that give you should he ever - forbid the thought- achieve the status he aims for - Prime Minister? Please wake up - and think about future generations. It is global companies who don't pay their taxes who should be pursued - and corruption dating back to COVID that needs deeper scrutiny. Do look at Sir Ian McKellen’s marvellous rendition of Sir Thomas More’s speech in Shakespeare’s Henry VIII.
youtu.be/wXq58BbhCO4?si=mJd0sUjpU25sZIsO

Well said and thoughtful post 👏👏👏

Wyllow3

I posted that on the other thread but it went uncommented - too many things being discussed - yes it's a superb speech from Shakespeare on how we subhumanise people and "other" them as strangers - do watch.

I agree, OP: top opening. People arriving who want to work for their benefits whilst processing happens.

Not just that, but some people arriving have been tortured in their own country, and we treat them like dirt and refer to them little better, every time someone calls people "illegals" I indeed do wonder at our decency and "niceness" we pride ourselves on so much.

A quick venture into the worlds of Social Media from Reform propaganda shows such venom.

👏👏👏

He spoke to a retired nurse who had lived there all her life and said it used to be a lovely community where everybody took great pride in their properties and the streets

I can tell you from first hand, lived experience the poverty there has always been sad to see.

I so agree with you, Emilymaria. I volunteer in a small capacity with refugees and asylum seekers. Their stories are heart-breaking. They want to work, they want to contribute but aren’t allowed to. Give them a cup of tea and a smile and you will be rewarded a hundred times over.

Lathyrus3

Although the title is about “Immigrant benefits” it seems to have veered of into a discussion about Reform.

Let me make it clear that I am very fearful of a country where reform is in Government and in no way support them.

But I think it is naive to suppose that people will vote for Reform purely because of views on immigration. They will vote for Reform because their own lives are intolerable and Kabour is doing nothing to improve them, neither did a Conservative government, so Reform is their last hope.

On the BBC website there is today an article about the plight of a Durham town. I urge you to read it and to try to understand why the people there have voted for a Reform council. Immigration is not the issue for them,

The way to stop Reform is not to castigate or label the people who are in despair and are looking for a party that will actually do something to improve their lives.

What is needed us recognition of their problems and action to improve their lives. They will vote for the party that makes an effort to do that.

Great comments Lathyrus3 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

sixandahalf

*He spoke to a retired nurse who had lived there all her life and said it used to be a lovely community where everybody took great pride in their properties and the streets*

I can tell you from first hand, lived experience the poverty there has always been sad to see.

Didn’t it all start with the mine closures when there was no new employment created for people? A legacy of the Thatcher years? I think the EU ploughed money into such areas but they voted to leave the EU.

All their own fault for voting to leave the EU?

I don’t think people are grasping what needs to be done to prevent Reform from being the party of choice for many people who are desperate about the circumstances of their own lives.

I agree that immigrants can make an easy scapegoat but a scapegoat wouldn’t be necessary or relevant if people were happy and content.

Focusing on trying to change how people feel by making positive statements about immigration does nothing. Except make the people doing that feel virtuous and tolerant.

If anybody really cares about making immigrants welcome then the problems of indigenous poverty have to be tackled first. This is what the people in Durham are hoping for with Reform because nobody else seems to care.

It takes a saint to be glad that an immigrant family have been given a home, when you or your children and grandchildren haven’t got any chance of one.

MayBee70

sixandahalf

He spoke to a retired nurse who had lived there all her life and said it used to be a lovely community where everybody took great pride in their properties and the streets

I can tell you from first hand, lived experience the poverty there has always been sad to see.

Didn’t it all start with the mine closures when there was no new employment created for people? A legacy of the Thatcher years? I think the EU ploughed money into such areas but they voted to leave the EU.

Margaret Thatcher closed between 115-160 pits Conservative

Harold Wilson closed between 253-290 pits Labour

Source - Google

Lathyrus3

All their own fault for voting to leave the EU?

I didn’t mean that. I just don’t understand why those areas didn’t seem to understand that the EU was trying to help them though. Places like eg Ashington have been totally run down since the mines closed and central government, no matter who was in power, have done very little to help them.

I think the main parties really have to look at all the reasons people are turning to Reform, it’s not as simplistic as implying all their supporters are racist.

There are people who feel let down by consecutive governments, and willing to give someone else a go

GrannyGravy13

I think the main parties really have to look at all the reasons people are turning to Reform, it’s not as simplistic as implying all their supporters are racist.

There are people who feel let down by consecutive governments, and willing to give someone else ^a go^

But they’re turning to a party that has no intention of helping them. Why can’t people see that?