Peter Mandelson arrested

I do like to see people at functions, looking their best and wearing beautiful clothes and jewellery, but they have put themselves out there to be looked at then - and I do love clothes and jewellery I’m afraid.

Casdon

I’m sure that’s true. I just think it’s horrible if I’m honest, whoever it is, I don’t want to witness their humiliation, and I don’t get why other people apparently do.

I agree but I’m also completely uninterested in seeing famous people/ members of RF etc turning up for events/ public appearances.

I’m sure that’s true. I just think it’s horrible if I’m honest, whoever it is, I don’t want to witness their humiliation, and I don’t get why other people apparently do.

Casdon

Should anybody have the press present when they attend a police station? I think it’s voyeuristic to watch, it’s enough for me to know they were arrested. I don’t feel the need to see anybody publicly humiliated.

But I think it’s well known that the press are tipped off by the police isn’t it when it’s someone well known or a high profile crime - it’s not members of the general public

Should anybody have the press present when they attend a police station? I think it’s voyeuristic to watch, it’s enough for me to know they were arrested. I don’t feel the need to see anybody publicly humiliated.

But cynically, I believe the Conservative and Lib Dem's prime purpose is to be able to see the documents so they can plan how to undermine Starmer as current LP Leader for PM's shortcomings/crimes.
So the apparent veil of disinterestedness drops.
It is important that all material is released as quickly as possible; the government was quoted yesterday as saying material pertaining to Mandelson would not be released until after the Gorton and Denton Election; today, not until the Police had finished with it. To answer a question asked in Parliament today Lindsay Hoyle replied, Parliament is not subject to the Police.
Personally, I am glad that both these dishonest men have been exposed for leaking information to Epstein; conduct unbecoming. Both have been publicly humiliated and disgraced (the third time for Mandelson) and hopefully no further career remains open to either of them.

Why should Mandelson attend a police station with no Press present?

Whitewavemark2

It is as we said - Mandelson was arrested and bailed because he was considered to be a flight risk.

Yes they were hoping he could attend a police station with no press around.

Too late for that now.

It is as we said - Mandelson was arrested and bailed because he was considered to be a flight risk.

Babamaman

It is a ‘cop out’ “misconduct in public service”?
That is not the involvement and insidious actions against under age girls!
Neither he nor Andrew nor any other will go to prison for anything! There is a justice system for them and another for us?
There is not one politician that this crime does not to relate to

I do nto agree with you. 'Misconduct in the Public Service' is a crime with a clear definition

Misconduct in public office (“MiPO”) is a common law offence that can be tried only on indictment. It carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment. The offence concerns serious wilful abuse or neglect of the power or responsibilities of the public office held. There must be a direct link between the misconduct and an abuse of those powers or responsibilities. The Court of Appeal has made it clear that the offence should be strictly confined, and it can raise complex and sometimes sensitive issues.

The document can be found here: www.cps.gov.uk/prosecution-guidance/misconduct-public-office

The charges in relation to sex with underage girls, is a uite separate issue and is being investigated seperately by other polcie forces and other teams. So far the only accusation there is, is that AMW had sex with a 17 year old American girl in the UK where the ageof consent is 16, although in the American state she came from the age is 18.

You need to remember that both AMW and PM have not even been charged with these crimes. They are just being investigated and no charges have been laid.

In the UK people are innocent until proved guilty. IF AMW and PM end up in court they will get exactly the same justice as you and I will get. Look at the number of big stars and celebrities who have ended up in prison for significant periods. Not to mention government minsiters and various memebers of the aristocracy.

We do not run lynch mobs in the UK.

Thanks Tuliptree- I will listen again later....

It is a ‘cop out’ “misconduct in public service”?
That is not the involvement and insidious actions against under age girls!
Neither he nor Andrew nor any other will go to prison for anything! There is a justice system for them and another for us?
There is not one politician that this crime does not to relate to

Never mind BBC here it is courtesy of YouTube
www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtBS8COhhhM

Ie, if this case gets to court- credibility is another important aspect of the case.....

I remember watching the Panorama interview. I was very uncomfortable with AMW's lack of regard for Epstein's victims primarily but shocked with his words used and lack of insight. . Towards the end when he said words along the lines he thought there were advantages and benefits in his having a relationship with Epstein. He then said he went to NY to end the relationship face to face when he did, as that was the behaviour of a gentleman. I thought at the time this recording will be played in a court of law one day.

His lack of insight was off the scale. Plus he incriminated himself - not only in words used but now proven he lied as he kept in contact with Epstein after he said he "ended the relationship". Plus the sweating thing- medical records easily available....in investigation processes. He clearly had no thought or concern whatsoever that there may come a time when he is held to account for his actions and decisions.

The BBC has taken the interview off I player I understand- is that correct? I would be interested to listen to the words he used again if possible...

I don't know the detail of AMW's trade envoy "appointment" neither may the police have had that amount of detail at time of arrest last week- but they needed to start somewhere to have grounds for arrest. That is part of the evidence gathering process.....

Maremia "With AMW I suppose will they have to prove that he knew it 'mattered', whatever secrets he gave away. He wasn't just having a gossipy chat. He will no doubt have the best of lawyers".

Yes, Yes and Yes, no doubt....Each step has to be proven to be WILFUL....ie intentional and deliberate, plus that he knew what he was doing was wrong or could be perceived to be wrong. I remember AMW's Panarama interview. I can't remember his exact words but he clearly thought his relationship with Epstein was a good thing and said something along the lines that Epstein knew so many people and was an advantageous business contact.

His words verbatim potentially could be used as prosecution evidence that AMW understood he was an "advantageous" "business" sort of relationship with Epstein, with exchanged benefit for both parties...

Thank you, Lemonjam, for such detailed information.

Lemonjam- oh yes, the very first hurdle the defence will go for will be was it a public office. The police must have received prelim advice from CPS on this surely. I know that won’t be watertight - there was that case of the paramedic who on appeal was ruled not to hold public office and so couldn’t be guilty of misconduct in it. Yet the CPS brought the charges initially.

Apparently Mandy is still a Lord unless the removal of the title goes through parliament or until his death. Seems wrong to me.

With AMW I suppose will they have to prove that he knew it 'mattered', whatever secrets he gave away.
He wasn't just having a gossipy chat.
He will no doubt have the best of lawyers.

They'll be reading his hard drive so unless he's wiped it already they won't need printouts anyway.

Tuliptree 12.06: 'I would bet with you. But I do think his previous RN service and senior royal role could be used in establishing that he knew or should have known the issues involved in sharing information as he allegedly did".

I agree with you Tuliptree to a large extent but it's not water tight as admissible evidence. Such understanding would be in relation to what AMW understood to be pertaining to his RN role. To be found guilty of "Misconduct in Public Office" whilst acting as a 'trade envoy'- there is a 4th consideration that is peculiar to AMW that I have not noted in any media discussion. That is was AMW formally "appointed" as a "public officer" and thus can he be deemed to legitimately be a public officer in the eyes of the law if there was no job description, no interview, no offer letter, no formal employment contract etc. etc It's one potential line of defence. If not successful as a line of defence it would be put forward as a strong mitigating factor in such circumstances of no 'formal appointment".

So not only the usual ducks in a row:
+ wilfully neglects+ wilfully misconducts+ no reasonable justification -
but the police and CPS need to establish AMW was a "public officer" therefore accountable and subject to the law for that particular offence. If the CPS can't make a case with a likelihood of success ( over 51% chance of prosecution success) there are overlapping laws that may be applicable to form an alternative indictable offence- this is why AMW's case is not so straightforward and will take longer to investigate.

Spinnaker

Sadgrandma

A long time coming

Too long - but it's given them more time to shred documents hasn't it ? Cynical, moi ?

The publicised evidence against both Andrew and Mandelson comes from the Jeffrey Epstein files, which neither of them have access to.

Neither of them worked in a vacuum. They were both surrounded by British security and civil service employees who witnessed their behaviour , and now face police questioning; and perhaps being summoned to court to answer questions under oath.

With regard to the storage units dotted all around, I’m beginning to wonder how just one man could do all this by himself. It’s seems…..unlikely somehow. There must be others involved surely. It’s on such a huge scale, unprecedented really in the scheme of things. There has to be more to it.

And the points you make Lemon just demonstrate the need for trade envoy posts to be thoroughly investigated in general and appts to them made properly. It also feeds into the argument for a slimmed down RF and that in a future model the spares would get proper jobs and be properly appointed.

LemonJam

I wager that in case of AMW there was little "vetting", little "due diligence" no job description, no expenses policy, no formally signing up to Nolan's Principles and no annual signing a declaration of conflicts of interest statement (which I confirm annually as do and all others in Public Office roles) and no routine annual performance review. PM would have been subjected to all these conditions.

I would bet with you. But I do think his previous RN service and senior royal role could be used in establishing that he knew or should have known the issues involved in sharing information as he allegedly did.