Israel and US hit Iran

MaizieD

^No Maizie if any in the UK are destitute it's by their own hand, often drug use or anti social behavior, abject poverty is rare, there is plenty of social help available if they look for it. Relationship breakdown is often the reason a family does not have a permanent home, that is not destitution.^

I knew someone would come up with that sort of argument.

Crocodile tears for the world's starving millions don't hack it when folks are happy to account for our own destitute by victim blaming.

Being a 'sovereign country' is no excuse, either...

But I assume you would not be happy for someone to invade us because of the way we treat the destitute?

That is the argument here.

Not what happens within a sovereign state

Good post foxie.

^Whether I would like the regime destroyed is entirely irrelevant.
^

Irrelevant??

Sounds like a no in that case, to me.

Where on earth do you get Starmer is supporting Trump and Netanyahu? Hes categorically said he won't be dragged into a war.

This war is not about regime change

Or about Iran not developing nuclear weapons?
Which for all I know, maybe the outcome.

I takre the rest of your points though.

fancythat

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

Casdon

Oreo

😄
That’s funny as I haven’t denied it, and however much noise you make about it a very good proportion of women in Iran do want change and have been very brave to protest.Many have been beaten and tortured and raped and killed when they protested too.

Of course they do, and I haven’t denied that! As I said, it’s pointless discussing something that is as clear this is. People vary in their views. Wow.

But you dont seem to be all for the POTUS wanting to destroy this evil regime.

That is because most of the world except Putin, Trump snd Netanyahu respect the law. Sovereign equality - a vital principle.

The bully boys?

Not so much.

That does nt answer the question.

Do you[or was it casdon that was asked], want the regime destroyed?

But maybe it is the POTUS doing it that you have a problem with.

I dont have time today to get all into this properly.

Whether I would like the regime destroyed is entirely irrelevant.

Because under international law, state sovereignty is recognised.

I hate what is happening in a lot of countries

Afghanistan
North Korea
Eritrea
Myanmar

To name just a few. But there is a reason why countries with the power don’t invade to change the regime isn’t there?
And there is a reason why Trump cited imminent threat (which of course the pentagon has said is not true) because he knows that, that is the only possible reason he could possibly have to invade.

I hold to that law.

I think Iran and Gaza are chalk and cheese.
Regime change would be a bonus but it isn’t the reason really, it’s about the whole region being safer, Israel included and denying the mad mullahs nuclear power of any kind.

This war is not about regime change, if it is, it is poorly planned, badly executed and completely under estimates the extent to which the Iranian Islamic state has complete control of the country. There is no organised opposition and Trump's call to citizens to take over control is ridiculous and dangerous. They would just get massacred in the streets, as we have already seen.
This is about Israel and Netanyahu who has been trying to get the US involved for years. What we will see is the destruction of Iran's infrastructure and probably that of Lebanon too, leaving ordinary innocent citizens in a worse situation than they are already. Iran will still have an oppressive regime which will crack down even harder on those citizens that oppose it but Israel will feel safer.
I hope I am wrong but having seen the destruction of Gaza with little regard for the "collateral" damage wreaked by the IDF, I don't think the war in Iran will be much different.

I am glad that Starmer is now supporting the Americans and Israelis. I thought he might have come out on the other side.

Our priority here in the UK is to be able to defend ourselves.
It’s like having a roof over our heads, everything else comes second to that.Countries in Europe are upping defence budgets but too slowly.

No Maizie if any in the UK are destitute it's by their own hand, often drug use or anti social behavior, abject poverty is rare, there is plenty of social help available if they look for it. Relationship breakdown is often the reason a family does not have a permanent home, that is not destitution.

I knew someone would come up with that sort of argument.

Crocodile tears for the world's starving millions don't hack it when folks are happy to account for our own destitute by victim blaming.

Being a 'sovereign country' is no excuse, either...

Gaza now has plenty of aid going in.

Oreo

Poverty or relative poverty has no relevance to a country like Iran with a regime filled with hate for the Western world.
Priorities!

One of my priorites would be to stop starving people in Gaza.

Absolutely despicable behaviour.

The state pension may be listed as a benefit but it damn well isn’t.I don’t receive it as yet but like everyone else who does, when I do I shall have earned it by paying NI tax contributions all my life.
The two child benefit cap should have stayed.

Bear in mind, Oreo, that the State Pension is listed as a benefit, and there are a fair number of people in receipt of this.

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

Casdon

Oreo

😄
That’s funny as I haven’t denied it, and however much noise you make about it a very good proportion of women in Iran do want change and have been very brave to protest.Many have been beaten and tortured and raped and killed when they protested too.

Of course they do, and I haven’t denied that! As I said, it’s pointless discussing something that is as clear this is. People vary in their views. Wow.

But you dont seem to be all for the POTUS wanting to destroy this evil regime.

That is because most of the world except Putin, Trump snd Netanyahu respect the law. Sovereign equality - a vital principle.

The bully boys?

Not so much.

That does nt answer the question.

Do you[or was it casdon that was asked], want the regime destroyed?

But maybe it is the POTUS doing it that you have a problem with.

I dont have time today to get all into this properly.

We need more money spent on defence capabilities and less on benefits.

Poverty or relative poverty has no relevance to a country like Iran with a regime filled with hate for the Western world.
Priorities!

MaizieD

sixandahalf

Oreo

Iran have been given a free pass for far too long.

Lots of countries seem to do exactly as they please, including leaving millions to starve.

The UK included. How many million people do we have living in destitution?

No Maizie if any in the UK are destitute it's by their own hand, often drug use or anti social behavior, abject poverty is rare, there is plenty of social help available if they look for it. Relationship breakdown is often the reason a family does not have a permanent home, that is not destitution.

LAs don't have a bank of empty homes where suddenly homeless can be housed instantly, that will never happen temporary accommodation will always have to be used.

MaizieD

sixandahalf

Oreo

Iran have been given a free pass for far too long.

Lots of countries seem to do exactly as they please, including leaving millions to starve.

The UK included. How many million people do we have living in destitution?

But we are not talking about what goes on in a sovereign country.

Or at least there are lots of things going on all over the world with which we may very strongly disagree, but we have rules governing how these are dealt with.

Very wise people as far back to the 17th century and in particular during the last century deemed that the best way forward was to outline the process by which war is declared by one country on another. Concepts such as sovereignty, non-intervention, legal equality, come into play. From there was developed the idea of peaceful resolution and Art. 51.

A pipsqueak like Trump and a warmonger like Putin and Netanyahu should never be allowed to trash what is a vital resource to international relationships and the peace of the world.

sixandahalf

Oreo

Iran have been given a free pass for far too long.

Lots of countries seem to do exactly as they please, including leaving millions to starve.

The UK included. How many million people do we have living in destitution?

Netenyahu would be arrested if he entered the UK and many other countries to be questioned over alleged war crimes. So I don’t see how he can take the moral high ground about Iran.

Oreo

Iran have been given a free pass for far too long.

Lots of countries seem to do exactly as they please, including leaving millions to starve.

If women want to be trad wives well let them. So long as it is their choice I can’t see anything wrong. You’d have to be pretty wealthy, though. Traditionally they would also put in a lot of hours doing charitable work. I am talking about Western wives here, not the ones who are forced to wear headscarves and look at the world through tiny slits as per Iran.

Whitewavemark2

Meandrogrog

Casdon

Oreo

😄
That’s funny as I haven’t denied it, and however much noise you make about it a very good proportion of women in Iran do want change and have been very brave to protest.Many have been beaten and tortured and raped and killed when they protested too.

Of course they do, and I haven’t denied that! As I said, it’s pointless discussing something that is as clear this is. People vary in their views. Wow.

But you dont seem to be all for the POTUS wanting to destroy this evil regime.

That is because most of the world except Putin, Trump snd Netanyahu respect the law. Sovereign equality - a vital principle.

The bully boys?

Not so much.

The bully boys seem to be those in power in Iran.