Israel and US hit Iran

ronib

Trump’s plan to destroy 40 Iranian ministers wouldn’t have worked if Congress had been involved? Surely secrecy was essential for a surprise attack? Appalling though this whole situation is.

I would have thought the Iranians were expecting an attack, the task force was in position and Trump was threatening, but they didn't have good enough security. They government had to meet because messages were being intercepted, it was a massive attack with 30 missiles

ronib

Trump’s plan to destroy 40 Iranian ministers wouldn’t have worked if Congress had been involved? Surely secrecy was essential for a surprise attack? Appalling though this whole situation is.

Secret wars are not a thing ronib, especially not when Trump then calls upon allies to get involved. It isn’t secret it is illegal, and there is a world of difference here. If every leader around the world could launch secret wars just think what the result would be.
This is a war with no direct provocation from a sovereign country, a country that was due to enter into more talks with the US, and without a clear aim. Indeed headlines on the news on TV spells it out ‘what will be the outcome?’ ‘where is this leading?’ etc.
And if Trump gets tired of this secret war which secret war will he fight next. And what is the human cost in all of this. Not just innocent Iranians, but innocent Israelis, innocent Lebanese people, and US service personnel.

Trump’s plan to destroy 40 Iranian ministers wouldn’t have worked if Congress had been involved? Surely secrecy was essential for a surprise attack? Appalling though this whole situation is.

Someone asking upthread about danger to the UK.
Possible destructive hacking. This time not for money.
Lone wolf terrorism.

Starmer has done the right thing and not followed Trump into an illegal war.
Stipulating that allowing the bases to be used for defence only was the best he could do.
This does mean we are at war with Iran thanks to Trump's ill thought out attack.
If Trump had done this legally and consulted Congress and allies before the attack then I believe Starmer may have supported him.
It seems the only person Trump consulted was Netanyahu who believes war and killing are the only way.

Terrorism is not just a UK issue, it is the same in other European countries, and I think our cards are marked by Iran already, whether or not we had opted to go down this route or not would probably have made little or no difference.

From an economic perspective, we would also be hit in the same way whatever we did, too because oil prices impact every country.

Maybe it’s just me, but I do feel that Starmer is doing the right thing, and doing what any other PM would do in his position, in line with our major European allies, but is getting criticised just because people don’t like him, which I think is illogical.

I think there will be economic disruptions. And very soon.

I suppose London might be most at risk of terrorism. And RAF bases.

fancythat

Where might Iran hit in the Uk?

It's terrorist events that are the main risk to the UK, the US got 9/11 but everyone on alert as we are now which reduces the risk.
The other risk is economic due to oil disruptions, the gulf could be close for some time. If the gulf is closed for a long period the US will blockade Iran allowing no movement by air or sea. If Iran decide not to negotiate, ( they might) it could be a very long confrontation, it only takes a small minority of fanatics to hold the whole country to ransom

Where might Iran hit in the Uk?

I agree that not just Iran but allies of Iran in the ME and those living in the UK who support the regime or are radicalised will see the UK as being as much to blame as the US or Israel, putting people here in substantial danger from terrorist attacks,
I imagine the risk of such attacks is now at its highest level right now.

Casdon

Tell us what other choices there were please, and what the consequences of them might be?

Clearly from the article above the U.K. is deeply embedded in the Middle East - largely resulting I think from history.

Starmer must defend the U.K. folk. But defence will inevitably be seen as offence by the Iranians.

What a disaster.

Casdon

Tell us what other choices there were please, and what the consequences of them might be?

There weren't any other choices but Iran will treat the UK in the same way as the US and Israel.
The US have dragged us into this war and there will be consequences.

Iranians celebrated in the streets when the Supreme Murderer was killed. Now the vile regime is organising supportive demonstrations for the cameras and telling opponents to stay at home or risk being shot. All in the name of religious theocracy.

Tell us what other choices there were please, and what the consequences of them might be?

And if we can see that may well be Iran's interpretation, why didn't Starmer?

Whitewave that is my fear too. Iran will see it as the UK joining forces with the US.

UKs presence in the Gulf States and why we may get involved.

Information from Geraint Hughes - see above

“The UK’s armed forces have long had a presence across the Middle East. Bahrain hosts the United Kingdom Naval Support Facility, which supports Operation Kipion, the Royal Navy’s longstanding maritime security mission in the Persian Gulf and Indian Ocean. This operation dates back to the Armilla Patrol during the Iran-Iraq War of the 1980s. The base and its 300 personnel were close to the Iranian missile strike that targeted the US Fifth Fleet’s headquarters on February 28.

Operation Kipion has effectively been suspended as the Royal Navy has withdrawn its two vessels from the Gulf. The frigate HMS Lancaster was decommissioned in December 2025, and the minesweeper HMS Middleton left the Gulf the week before US and Israeli airstrikes began, to return to the UK.

The RAF has a joint squadron with the Qatari Emiri Air Force – 12 Squadron – which is currently deployed to the emirate. One of the RAF’s Typhoon jets with 12 Squadron shot down an Iranian drone launched against Qatar (which also hosts a US air base at Al Udeid) on March 1.

Oman has longstanding defence ties with the UK dating back to the establishment of its armed forces – initially under British command – in July 1958. It has frequently hosted British army and RAF exercises. The port of Duqm has been developed into a logistics hub and a naval base. Britain’s signals intelligence service, GCHQ, also reportedly has three listening posts in the sultanate.

In the wider Middle East and Mediterranean region, the Royal Navy has been an active participant in Operation Prosperity Guardian. This is a US-led mission to protect commercial shipping passing in and out of the Red Sea via the Bad el Mandab Strait from missile and drone attacks by the Houthis. The Houthis are aligned with Tehran and have targeted shipping bound for Israel since November 2023.

Britain also has two Sovereign Base Areas in Cyprus (Akrotiri and Dhekelia), with a GCHQ listening post reportedly at Ayios Nikolaos, part of Dhekelia.

As part of the Five Eyes alliance related to intelligence-sharing, GCHQ closely coordinates its eavesdropping operations with its US counterpart, the National Security Agency.”

Looks almost inevitable.

Anyone else thinking that the war may not be long?
As in no more than one month[the US part]?

Trump doesnt seem to like hanging around too long??

All a guess on my part.

Extract from an article by Geraint Hughes - reader in military and diplomatic history - Kings College London.

Something I an fearing

“Starmer has emphasised that Britain will not join in “offensive action”. But Tehran is unlikely to acknowledge this distinction between “defensive” operations and more “offensive” ones targeting its leadership, armed forces and suspected nuclear facilities.

The Iranian missile strike on the US Fifth Fleet headquarters in Bahrain demonstrates that British military personnel could potentially be at risk from an Iranian attack, even if indirect. And two ballistic missiles fired in Cyprus’s direction may well have been aimed at the USS Gerald Ford and its strike group, which is currently in the eastern Mediterranean.

Fundamentally, however, the Islamic regime in Iran is profoundly Anglophobic. It presumes that the US and Britain will always collaborate with each other – just as they did when the CIA and SIS orchestrated the coup that overthrew Iran’s democratically elected prime minister Mohammed Mossadeq in July 1953.

It is therefore possible that Tehran has assumed British complicity in the launching of Operation Epic Fury, and may well target the UK’s military assets in the Gulf and beyond as a result. Whatever the UK government’s intentions, Britain may find itself drawn into a war it had no say in starting.”

Starmer couldn't really say no without causing a big argument with Trump which would have probably have resulted in him annexing Diego Garcia. It was the least worse decision he could make.

We could stop the US using UK bases but that is definitely not in Europe's defence interests

* Frank Gardner

I personally agree with Starmer, and as Frank Garner on the BBC just said Starmer really is treading a very difficult line here, because the war was not put before congress or the UN it is by definition illegal, and the reasons for going to war at this juncture when more talks were taking place, are not clear, also the aims are confusing, is it to free the Iranians from the regime, or to satisfy Israel’s need to castrate any possible proxies, or to force the regime to agree to disabling any nuclear ambitions.
And as Lyse Doucet has said, despite Iranians wishes to be free from the regime they must now be wondering just what kind of price they are expected to pay.

Thanks AGAA4, it's what I thought.

Thanks Wyllow

Maremia

Confused.
Did Starmer say this was a 'legal' attack by Trump and Netanyahu?

No. Starmer has said the war is unlawful.