For the first time ever

butterandjam

Allira

AGAA4

HMS Duncan is in the English Channel protecting the UK.

Good.
What about the North Sea and around Scotland?

That would be the UK submarine fleet, based in Scotland, one constantly on patrol around UK,. They are nuclear powered and armed with nuclear missiles. The Trident missiles are built in, leased from and serviced by USA. Our two most recent missile tests both misfired.

www.chathamhouse.org/2025/03/uks-nuclear-deterrent-relies-us-support-there-are-no-other-easy-alternatives

Until recently 2 of the Trident submarines were on patrol, their patrol area is much wider than UK waters. Defence cuts reduced that to one .

The US maintains all the missiles because it was cheaper than a UK alternative. France has a similar number of nuclear warheads but are totally independant and spends rather less

Our two most recent missile tests both misfired
Oh dear.

Yes, I had a friend whose DH was on nuclear subs many years ago. He was away for months at a time, as were other RN personnel, but with no communication at all from him.

Allira

AGAA4

HMS Duncan is in the English Channel protecting the UK.

Good.
What about the North Sea and around Scotland?

That would be the UK submarine fleet, based in Scotland, one constantly on patrol around UK,. They are nuclear powered and armed with nuclear missiles. The Trident missiles are built in, leased from and serviced by USA. Our two most recent missile tests both misfired.

www.chathamhouse.org/2025/03/uks-nuclear-deterrent-relies-us-support-there-are-no-other-easy-alternatives

knspol

*Monica*. Absolutely agree re readiness of navy and ships. Highlights what a poor state our defences are in. For too long we have relied on the US to rush to our aid defence wise and this is no longer the case. As a country we must build up our armed forces and equipment.

When has America ever " RUSHED to our aid defencewise?"

They were three years late to WW1, and more than two years late to WW2.

During The Troubles in Ireland, Americans funded and armed the IRA.

You order new weaponry to cope with the threats of the day, buy the time major equipment is built it's often near obsolete.
Defense spending is always going to be wasteful, it has to be built in advance but most never gets used, during the Cold War most was scrapped and never saw service. It's not possible to predict in advance what is needed, you just make the "best guess"

Grantanow

We need to spend more on defence, cut out waste in MOD and ensure readiness at all times.

Do you work at MOD?

Is there a lot of waste?
I've not heard people I know who work there say that. Then again, they don't talk about much at all that happens there.
🤐

Apologies prestbury- I’m surprised that the time between decision making and construction was so short. I know there is new fleet now under construction, let’s hope that is an equally speedy process.

Casdon

*prestbury*, an obvious point is that if construction of aircraft carriers began in 2007, it wasn’t Blair who made that decision, because it takes years between decision and construction?

There was a strategic defense review launched in 1997 by the newly elected Labour Government, the review being published in 1998. This was the document that launched the feasibility of building new aicraft carriers. In 1999 6 companies were invited to tender for the 'assessment phase' of the project, later that year the contracts were awarded jointly to two companies.

This was the Blair government.

We need to spend more on defence, cut out waste in MOD and ensure readiness at all times.

Actually yesterday, didn't notice it's now another day.

Allira

AGAA4

HMS Duncan is in the English Channel protecting the UK.

Good.
What about the North Sea and around Scotland?

A submarine left the Clyde today.

AGAA4

HMS Duncan is in the English Channel protecting the UK.

Good.
What about the North Sea and around Scotland?

knspol

*Monica*. Absolutely agree re readiness of navy and ships. Highlights what a poor state our defences are in. For too long we have relied on the US to rush to our aid defence wise and this is no longer the case. As a country we must build up our armed forces and equipment.

American rushing to our defence ? Last time was 1942 and in response to the attack on Pearl Harbour , so the USA, not in response to the Nazi invasion of many European countries and a war throughout Europe.

America wasn’t bombed into obliteration during ww2. Europe, including the UK was. America contributed to defence to a greater degree and its right Europe steps up.

Of course we must rebuild our armed services as well as our nhs and all public services. Short term savings in austerity is costing a long term fortune

HMS Duncan is in the English Channel protecting the UK.

WhiteWave
You obviously haven’t seen HMS Duncan. Considered one of the world’s most advanced war ships.
I love this fact about Duncan.
It is capable of shooting down a cricket ball flying at supersonic speed while Duncan is 150 miles away from the cricket ball.
Hardley a white elephant.

The last time America as you put it rushed to our aid militarily knspol was in 1941 and that was after Pearl Harbour was attacked.

blsck
lack

Allira

Whitewavemark2

Casdon

It would be much easier to have our war fleet ready for service immediately if we had more of them. Have you actually looked at the size of the UK fleet, and seen how many of the ships are in refit or not currently in service?

As far as I can work out, we have 1 destroyer, 1 rescue ship, a couple of white elephants in the form of aircraft carriers and a submarine.

Have no idea what we ideally need, but it does seem a tad lacking.

Do you mean in service?

We do have far more than that number in fact but perhaps HMS Dragon was the one which was the most suitable for this purpose after its urgent maintenance and upgrade.

The RN has 63 commissioned ships in fact.

Not all are operational as some are in for maintenance and refit and there is a blsck of personnel too, which is worrying.

Whitewavemark2

Casdon

It would be much easier to have our war fleet ready for service immediately if we had more of them. Have you actually looked at the size of the UK fleet, and seen how many of the ships are in refit or not currently in service?

As far as I can work out, we have 1 destroyer, 1 rescue ship, a couple of white elephants in the form of aircraft carriers and a submarine.

Have no idea what we ideally need, but it does seem a tad lacking.

Do you mean in service?

We do have far more than that number in fact but perhaps HMS Dragon was the one which was the most suitable for this purpose after its urgent maintenance and upgrade.

Elegran

If it had sailed unprepared, lives could have been lost - and it could have been ineffective at doing what it was there for.

Plus, given the volatility of Trump's brainwaves, he could have changed his mind the next day and transferred all the fighting to Antarctica or the moon.

I have no knowledge of sailing or boats. None.

Logic informs that POTUS could've easily changed his mind - decided to fight Greenland, Canada, Panama, Equador, or wherever.

POTUS desire to be a 'Peace POTUS' seems to have vanished.

AGAA4

Elegran

If it had sailed unprepared, lives could have been lost - and it could have been ineffective at doing what it was there for.

Plus, given the volatility of Trump's brainwaves, he could have changed his mind the next day and transferred all the fighting to Antarctica or the moon.

It takes six or more weeks to get a ship ready for action but by working long and hard they did it in less than that so good for them!

When ships have been in for a refit or maintenance they used to have to go through sea trials before being declared fit for operational service.
I hope this still happens.

A military where people have been forced to enroll to survive does not have loyal workers. It is not an alternative to supporting and increasing employment in productive industries.

Casdon

The people who worked in the shipyards are now too old for active military service David49? The Swan Hunter yard, at the end of a long period of closures, shut down in 2010.

And their descendants prefer industries which are still employing workers.

ronib

How was it possible for three other countries to send a ship to Cyprus very quickly?

They had it ready long before it was needed, probably for years before. They probably also had lots of other ships and planes and manpower too, because their leaders had spent money and thought on keeping their defences prepared even though Europe has been at peace for decades.

The people who worked in the shipyards are now too old for active military service David49? The Swan Hunter yard, at the end of a long period of closures, shut down in 2010.