Mr Trump Can't Shut This War Down........

If that is applied to me

Gratitude that the US continues to fund NATO to the tune of 62%.

Think what would happen without that funding?
Or worse still, it was used against the Uk and Europe?
And even worse, used to help Russia .
Or Iran. Or whoever they fancy.

There are things being to be quoted in the media, having been spoken by I think it was spokespeople from NATO, who are now thinking worst case scenarios.

I get the impression that the last 7 days or so have really opened some eyes there.
They are now starting to really think about how things could pan out.

As to shutting it down, there are reports that the Houthis have joined in.

A bit confused by the use of the word 'gratitude'
Are you saying we should feel gratitude to Trump?

Haven't read all the Thread, but agree with your post Cossy.

I think the one thing we’d all totally agree on is “Trump cannot shut the war down”, not this war, not the war in Ukraine, not the war in Gaza.

Whatever he, and his sycophants claim, this man is a dangerous imbecile and out of control.

I do think NATO, well the Uk in particular, should not have taken it's eye off the ball on defence.

The military has been crying out for about 10 years, that it is too depleted.

Oreo

I will never be in the stage of who’s right and who’s wrong, and frankly Iran has caused so much death and destruction on innocent targets through its mad beliefs of the regime that they do deserve all they are presently getting.

So how do the bombs discriminate please?

Really,I'd love to know.

As Cossy says, these are people we are discussing. Somebody's child wrapped in a shroud, hastily buried.

How any person can look up to Trump is beyond me. I think he's enjoying this.

foxie48

The UK was defenceless at the start of WW2, this is not new. We could have spent billions on weapons over the last 25 years only to find that what we need to fight a war now is not huge aircraft carriers or expensive high speed missiles but something entirely different. Perhaps our greatest weapon in not in bombs and boots on the ground but is located in a centre like GCHQ.
Trump (hopefully) won't be in power after 2028, I don't think we and the rest of Europe will go back to exactly the same relationship that we thought we had with the US but I think, with a change of government there will be some change in attitude. We need to improve our own defences and we need to be part of European /Nato based defence system even if the US leaves Nato and we also have to recognise that improving our defences will cost money. tbh over the the 25 years I haven't heard people clamoring to pay more taxes so we can have better defences (except of course from the military) so there's a fair bit of hypocrisy doing the rounds!

Very good post.

I have wondered myself about what defences are needed.

I would disagree with you on the boots on the ground.

Even Trump doesnt seem to be able to manage without those. For all the technology that the world has.

David49. While you are here.

Probably, though dont know for suer , you know the most on GN about defence systems.

Should I start a thread?

Allira

^And to me, boats look like sitting ducks.^
Do you mean Naval ships or cargo vessels, fishing boats?

I had been thinking to start a thread about world defence systems.
Who is very well armed and who isnt.

Perhaps not, as you say:
^But again, I dont know enough.^

Ooh, back to jokes.

Naval ships.

Think I will start the thread.
No one knows enough on their own, on a very important subject.

Cossy

Oreo

Animals go in for killing too, where they can and not just to be able to eat either.

I agree but 1) we humans are supposed to be “thinkers” and civilised, & 2) animals are natural predators, even domesticated ones, but they don’t lie/cheat/steal power, most of the time they are simply true their species, as a general rule killing for food or defence, and of course the occasional “fun”

We have seen Iranian sponsored terrorists attack and intimidate civilians, even use them as human shields, this is the kind of warfare that Iran supports, Dubai isn't blameless either it is they that have been financing the rebels in Sudan

Oreo

Animals go in for killing too, where they can and not just to be able to eat either.

There is usually a reason for animals to kill. Reasons are to eat, to defend their territory, to carve out a new territory among esablished ones as a young animal making his way in life, to repel a rival trying to muscle in on his choice of mate and his ensurement of the continuation of his line, to defend those offspring against attack. Predator animals are instinctively triggered by movements that remind them of prey; that is why foxes run amok in a coop full of fluttering chickens with no means of escape.

Oreo

Animals go in for killing too, where they can and not just to be able to eat either.

I agree but 1) we humans are supposed to be “thinkers” and civilised, & 2) animals are natural predators, even domesticated ones, but they don’t lie/cheat/steal power, most of the time they are simply true their species, as a general rule killing for food or defence, and of course the occasional “fun”

Oreo

I will never be in the stage of who’s right and who’s wrong, and frankly Iran has caused so much death and destruction on innocent targets through its mad beliefs of the regime that they do deserve all they are presently getting.

I get where you’re coming from, but it’s not just the “bad” Iranians suffering/ dying is it!

And to me, boats look like sitting ducks.
Do you mean Naval ships or cargo vessels, fishing boats?

I had been thinking to start a thread about world defence systems.
Who is very well armed and who isnt.

Perhaps not, as you say:
But again, I dont know enough.

The UK was defenceless at the start of WW2, this is not new. We could have spent billions on weapons over the last 25 years only to find that what we need to fight a war now is not huge aircraft carriers or expensive high speed missiles but something entirely different. Perhaps our greatest weapon in not in bombs and boots on the ground but is located in a centre like GCHQ.
Trump (hopefully) won't be in power after 2028, I don't think we and the rest of Europe will go back to exactly the same relationship that we thought we had with the US but I think, with a change of government there will be some change in attitude. We need to improve our own defences and we need to be part of European /Nato based defence system even if the US leaves Nato and we also have to recognise that improving our defences will cost money. tbh over the the 25 years I haven't heard people clamoring to pay more taxes so we can have better defences (except of course from the military) so there's a fair bit of hypocrisy doing the rounds!

Please dont fancythat 😲 as there are enough things to worry about already.😄

^This war has shown both us and the world that the UK is pretty defenceless and is a national embarrassment.

I was shocked when I read yesterday that our navy is depleted to it's worse state since 1642!

But maybe it is very well armed?
I dont know much about that.
And to me, boats look like sitting ducks.
But again, I dont know enough.

I had been thinking to start a thread about world defence systems.
Who is very well armed and who isnt.

I will never be in the stage of who’s right and who’s wrong, and frankly Iran has caused so much death and destruction on innocent targets through its mad beliefs of the regime that they do deserve all they are presently getting.

Animals go in for killing too, where they can and not just to be able to eat either.

David49

I don't see how the US is going to win yet or even get Hormuz open, a land operation even on a restricted scale could mean a lot of casualties whereas a blockade could be done with much less risk.
War is a dirty game, you don't win by being nice, it's well last time that Iran got some of its terrorism repaid.

I’m sorry, I simply cannot agree that any “country” is getting it’s just desserts.

In fact, it sickens me to the core.

We had Afghanistan, poor families and all women living in fear, terror and poverty under the Talibans, then came Ukraine, the awful Israeli kidnaps and murders, followed by totally ott action by Netanyahu, now Iran!

All those lives lost, someone’s daughter, someone’s son, someone’s mother/father/sister brother etc.

It’s vile and despicable and frankly I’m past the stage of who’s right and wrong in this terrible unacceptable mass killing.

The thing that sickens me almost as much is the sufferings of people in places like Africa, people on a huge continent who are dying through lack of water/food/vaccines, often down to Wars and corrupt regimes/governments.

Do “we/they” rush in there? No, of course not, they don’t possess the oil/minerals/land powerful (so/called) leaders want.

The whole thing is an abomination, no wonder many humans prefer animals?

As far as Iran and crazy proxies are concerned it is our war and they hate all of the West in any case.
Iran won’t be in any state to do anything much in a few weeks time fortunately.
We have to start paying more in our NATO financial responsibilities as 2% is pathetic.This war has shown both us and the world that the UK is pretty defenceless and is a national embarrassment.

The bottom line, fancythat is that a line has to be drawn somewhere, or Trump will make himself King of the World,

I agree.

But what cost are we all willing to pay.

Financial?
Our children and grandchildren off to war?[including women].

Some of whom, will never return again?

But that is not to say I am not grateful to the US.
I so am.

Not for what they are doing now.[though I imagine some Iranians are very grateful indeed, especially some women], but for the help with NATO.

And does anyone really want the US as our enemy/help Russia?

I was the poster who said a couple of times in this thread, that I didnt think we should do a thing.

But we have.
So here we are.