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Matt Goodwin

(600 Posts)
Meandrogrog Sat 14-Mar-26 06:54:49

Just seen Matt Goodwin has a new book due to be published on monday called Suicide of a Nation. He has an extract from the book in the Daily Mail today, which is excellent. I think this will be well worth purchasing.

Oreo Mon 16-Mar-26 14:14:32

Cossy

Ooops bar Goodwins calculations of the increase in Muslims.

That’s something we won’t really know until later, but they do tend to have larger families so it’s quite possible.

Maremia Mon 16-Mar-26 14:12:45

Responding to MT.

Oreo Mon 16-Mar-26 14:12:09

Graphite

You’re choice, Oreo, to close your ears and eyes. We can chose to challenge the assertion that Goodwin has written an “excellent piece”, to engage fully with a topic or to post drive-by sarcasm.

You’re mixing me up with the OP now! I haven’t said it was an excellent piece.I would have to read more of the book to have a real opinion on it.

Maremia Mon 16-Mar-26 14:12:05

Could be.

Oreo Mon 16-Mar-26 14:10:12

Cossy

Galaxy

At least we can laugh smile

And long may this last.

Many of the posts in here bring a huge smile to my face, especially those specifically designed not to do so grin

I feel more of a wry smile when I read some posts.😉

Oreo Mon 16-Mar-26 14:08:05

LemonJam

I spent some years presiding over cases in court - that did make me laugh 😂

So I was right on the money there then 😁

sixandahalf Mon 16-Mar-26 13:44:58

Meandrogrog

I am finding this all very interesting and will be looking into .toynbee further. Its fascinating how empires rise and fall, the weaknesses that cause this to happen.

My feeling is that extremists /those without a conscience of harming others, unfortunately rise to the top, ie Afghanistan and Iran, Russia and China.

They seize power, and take control. Who would be able to stop this happening here? I believe Matt Goodwin pointed out that the Muslim population in the UK will be 60% to 40%, on his calculations.

Who knows how this will all pan out in the future?

Nobody knows , which is why reading things about the UK becoming 60 per cent Muslim isn't helping any body right now.

Cossy Mon 16-Mar-26 13:44:30

Ooops bar Goodwins calculations of the increase in Muslims.

Cossy Mon 16-Mar-26 13:43:43

Meandrogrog

I am finding this all very interesting and will be looking into .toynbee further. Its fascinating how empires rise and fall, the weaknesses that cause this to happen.

My feeling is that extremists /those without a conscience of harming others, unfortunately rise to the top, ie Afghanistan and Iran, Russia and China.

They seize power, and take control. Who would be able to stop this happening here? I believe Matt Goodwin pointed out that the Muslim population in the UK will be 60% to 40%, on his calculations.

Who knows how this will all pan out in the future?

I absolutely agree with every single word you’ve just written!

Extremism in any form I believe at best to be negative and at worst, dangerous.

I like to think such groups and people are in the minority in our country.

Meandrogrog Mon 16-Mar-26 13:22:14

I am finding this all very interesting and will be looking into .toynbee further. Its fascinating how empires rise and fall, the weaknesses that cause this to happen.

My feeling is that extremists /those without a conscience of harming others, unfortunately rise to the top, ie Afghanistan and Iran, Russia and China.

They seize power, and take control. Who would be able to stop this happening here? I believe Matt Goodwin pointed out that the Muslim population in the UK will be 60% to 40%, on his calculations.

Who knows how this will all pan out in the future?

MaizieD Mon 16-Mar-26 12:44:20

Arnold Toynbee was a very prominent 20th C historian whose main focus was on the rise and fall of civilisations. His body of work is absolutely massive.

Wkipedia article, very long.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_J._Toynbee#Views_on_the_post-World_War_I_peace_settlement_and_geopolitical_situation

The article points out that his analyses is less accepted now.

While his political views are not stated I suspect they were very much of the social liberal tradition. He wrote for the Manchester Guardian and had an interest in social reform.

I would call Polly Toynbee a centrist

The article points out that when Toynbee was engaged with the post WW1 settlements he felt that 'nationalities' were more important than 'borders'. I wonder if Goodwin picked up on that...

Graphite Mon 16-Mar-26 12:34:50

Another long post from me but Goodwin needs to be challenged.

At the heart of the DM piece is the Great Replacement Theory - a far-right, white supremacist conspiracy theory. No surprise that he’s supported by Tommy Robinson. Speaking on GB News in April 2025, Goodwin praised Renaud Camus as a “very important and influential French intellectual”. Camus is the originator of the conspiracy theory, which holds that elites are colluding to replace white Europeans with Muslims from Africa and the Middle East.

He claims that both Labour and Tory are actively encouraging “the forces” i.e. Muslim migrants to transform Britain.

He claims that the real cause of “our national unravelling” is a new ruling class that no longer believes in the nation, no longer values its ­historic majority and no longer really cares about the continuity of the country and its people.

He says that Britain ­cannot continue to tell newcomers they should retain their ­distinctive identities and cultures while telling the historic majority to jettison theirs.

Nobody is telling anybody they should do anything of the kind, only that one can live in a country without having to jettison one’s faith and cultural identity. In my opinion, this has made post-war Britain culturally richer not poorer. We don’t own a country. We are merely custodians for the relatively short time we have and things change.

Part of Britain’s “success”, why it became a wealthy nation, was through colonialism. It imposed its own faith and cultural identity on many nations around the globe, exploited natural resources and people, forcibly enslaved people with brown skins to make Britain wealthy.

What did the indigenous peoples of the Americas, Australia, India and New Zealand thought about white Christian settlers bringing their “distinctive identities and cultures” to their lands to become, in some countries, the dominant culture? It is often that continuing exploitation by wealthy nations which leads to the mass displacement of poor people. What is this latest war on Iran about if not oil? 3.2 million Iranians displaced needing sanctuary somewhere.

One can take Goodwin’s piece paragraph by paragraph and see where he is twisting the truth, for example:

He claims that a More in Common poll showed that nearly “half of ­Britons feel ‘like a stranger in my own country’." making it sound as though the poll was all about migration.

To correct what he wrote … 44% of Britons say they sometimes feel like they are strangers to those around them … and that it is due to factors including that:

… financial insecurity is one of the strongest predictors of whether Britons feel disconnected from society: two-thirds (67 per cent) of those who say that they struggle to make ends meet feel disconnected, compared to 37 per cent of those who describe themselves as financially comfortable. In focus groups, Britons of all backgrounds often share how the cost of living has deepened their sense of isolation, making socialising unaffordable.

That is nothing to do with migration and all to do with austerity. I would urge people to look at the survey and not believe Goodwin’s very selective interpretation:

www.moreincommon.org.uk/our-work/research/social-cohesion-a-snapshot/

LemonJam Mon 16-Mar-26 12:07:21

Meandrogog 11.11 "Thank you LemonJam, I do think it important to be respectful of others views. I am quite happy to live in a multicultural country, with Muslims,
Jews etc. I imagine most people are happy with this, and it makes for a colourful community. It's the extremists who spoil it for the majority, and I would not want our customs, way of life to be changed to suit other religions. It is probably the fear of this happening which is the appeal of Reform.

In answer to Graphite, I do not know of the writings of Toynbee, I will do some research to learn more. I have heard of his granddaughter, Polly Toynbee, I feel she is a left wing journalist?"

Thanks for your reply Meandrogog. Like you I am happy to live in a multi cultural society with Muslims, Jews etc and I agree it's the extremists who spoil it for many. I have never felt any push or pressure to change any of my customs or way of life to suit other religions- have you? For me this is a fear on which Reform seeks to capitalise yet is not a real risk and neither is it the cause of the Britain's decline as put forward.

Polly Toynbee has been a Guardian columnist for many years- probably going on for 30. She's a Social Democrat and was a candidate for the SD party in 1983. She is one of very many commentators on the causes of decline in society. Fairly easy to google commentators who are less politically leaning if you are looking for politically impartial views of society decline, after all Matt Goodwin can neither be viewed as politically impartial.

Googling causes of society decline and /or society collapse in comparison to Matt Goodwin's book:

Wikepidia comes up with five categories of factors:
1) economical
2) environmental
3) demographic
4) social
5) cultural

Jared Diamond, the Pulitzer Prize winning author of "How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed"comes up with:
1) environmental damage
2) climate change
3) hostile neighbours
4) friendly trade- ie lack of thereof
5) society's response to its environmental problems- i.e. the one factor of the five most within society and Governments' control

Google BBC- 'why societies grow more fragile and vulnerable to collapse as time passes' - Luke Kemp reports on the largest study (by a group of archeologists, historians and scientists) to date and asks can lessons be learned.

None of these commentators/views/experts align with the more simplistic anti immigrant rhetoric of Reform/Matt Goodwin however.

Meandrogrog Mon 16-Mar-26 12:07:06

Allira

LemonJam

MartavTaurus- 11.07- yes sorry I was mixing you up with OP saying the book extract in DM was "excellent".

Well, they both begin with M!
Meandrogrog is a Welsh word meaning meandering.

I didnt know that was the meaning of my user name, but meandering might be a good description!

Cossy Mon 16-Mar-26 11:59:17

Allira

^Farage saying it was a mistake to take on Worcs CC because it proved too difficult and finances were challenging.^

Lemonjam 😂 I shouldn't laugh but if they cannot manage Worcestershire then what hope have they of managing the whole of the UK plus international affairs?

Indeed! My thoughts exactly!

Anyway, maybe naively or simply hopeful, Reform are an extremely long way short of MPs to form a government and (imo) will also be so in the next election.

Their selection of ex-Tories, led by a grifter leader, known for chopping and changing his allegiances and careers when he’s “bored” is legendary.

I think his rhetoric and homing in on anxious average people’s fears is actually quite sickening and extremely divisive, I cannot see how so many people are “taken in” by him, on other hand, he’s a buddy of Trump, (or so he thinks) and Trump still appears to have support 🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️🤷🏻‍♀️

Galaxy Mon 16-Mar-26 11:57:32

Yes you are right they do not chime. I wasn't piling on though! I was defending something, both of you, one of you, none of you!

Cossy Mon 16-Mar-26 11:51:34

MartavTaurus

Definitely not!
Our comments do not chime.

Is this the pile ons I've read about on N & P threads? 😂

Yes!! 🤣🤣🤣 😜😜

MartavTaurus Mon 16-Mar-26 11:41:10

X post !!!

MartavTaurus Mon 16-Mar-26 11:40:54

No worries.
I guess Meandrogrog and I both have longish names beginning with M!!

Allira Mon 16-Mar-26 11:37:55

X post

Allira Mon 16-Mar-26 11:37:25

LemonJam

MartavTaurus- 11.07- yes sorry I was mixing you up with OP saying the book extract in DM was "excellent".

Well, they both begin with M!
Meandrogrog is a Welsh word meaning meandering.

MaizieD Mon 16-Mar-26 11:36:45

Thank you , MaizieD.
( I trust you not to misattribute an individual's quotes on here!) ,

I have to confess that I have done it on occasion, which is why I tend to think 'accidental' when someone else does it' smile

LemonJam Mon 16-Mar-26 11:34:55

For myself, I was responding to posts from both MartavTaurus and Meandrogog, each time had to check the spelling, both bean with M, and then in 11.07 post mixed the names up 🥱

You are absolutely right Martav/Taurus- your comments do not chime 😊

Allira Mon 16-Mar-26 11:34:43

Farage saying it was a mistake to take on Worcs CC because it proved too difficult and finances were challenging.

Lemonjam 😂 I shouldn't laugh but if they cannot manage Worcestershire then what hope have they of managing the whole of the UK plus international affairs?

MartavTaurus Mon 16-Mar-26 11:27:42

Definitely not!
Our comments do not chime.

Is this the pile ons I've read about on N & P threads? 😂