Matt Goodwin

MaizieD

Oreo

We can all quote chunks we have come across in newspapers books and online but much better to use our own words and reasoning.

Why should we do that if the authors we quote can do it clearly and succinctly?

I'm always curious as to how people manage to form their opinions without reading/listening to available media.

Because they do read/listen/ watch.

Cossy

Oreo

I think the book sounds worth reading, if only to test which things I agree with and the things I don’t.And why.

Perhaps you can read it for those of us who might not be able to get through due to 🤬🤬 and/or 🤮🤮, and give us your views.

It really doesn’t matter if we agree or not and you might be able to critique the writing, presentation and the content.

I have very little time for reading as still working and also doing some childcare and I leave all critique of the things you mention to the marvellous talents of Terribull on GN😃
But if I can get my hands on the book cheaply then I will certainly read it.

Galaxy

1. 3. 5.

I'm sorry?

What do these numbers refer to?

Oreo

We can all quote chunks we have come across in newspapers books and online but much better to use our own words and reasoning.

Why should we do that if the authors we quote can do it clearly and succinctly?

I'm always curious as to how people manage to form their opinions without reading/listening to available media.

I am at a loss to understand the appeal of polanski but he definitely has a cult around him.
The deep sexism/misogyny around their support for men in women's spaces, their undermining of the supreme court ruling, etc.

You’re choice, Oreo, to close your ears and eyes. We can chose to challenge the assertion that Goodwin has written an “excellent piece”, to engage fully with a topic or to post drive-by sarcasm.

1. 3. 5.

Galaxy

I think the green party ticks quite a few of those boxes to be fair.

Hard to work out what you are responding to here, Galaxy.

Which boxes are the Green Party ticking?

Oreo

I think the book sounds worth reading, if only to test which things I agree with and the things I don’t.And why.

Perhaps you can read it for those of us who might not be able to get through due to 🤬🤬 and/or 🤮🤮, and give us your views.

It really doesn’t matter if we agree or not and you might be able to critique the writing, presentation and the content.

Oreo

Which at least Cossy does btw.

Thank you, that made me smile

Galaxy

I think the green party ticks quite a few of those boxes to be fair.

😄 yes it does

I think the book sounds worth reading, if only to test which things I agree with and the things I don’t.And why.

I think the green party ticks quite a few of those boxes to be fair.

Which at least Cossy does btw.

We can all quote chunks we have come across in newspapers books and online but much better to use our own words and reasoning.

Graphite You are going the same way as LemonJam TLDR

LemonJam you forgot to end your long discourse with ‘I rest my case M’Lud’ your posts are increasingly like being in Court.
😬

Thanks, LemonJam, for repeating the questions I posed.

In response to Meandrogrog.

All county councils struggle because all councils have to spent the vast majority of their budgets on adult social care, education and other children’s services, £5 million per day is spent in this county alone. Why should Worcestershire be any different? My own well-run council (not Reform or Tory lead thankfully) is increasing CT by 3.8%, around the same as the average rate of inflation depending on whether one uses RPI which includes housing costs or CPI which doesn’t.

Farage made the point that it was the Tories who had failed to manage the Worcestershire county’s finances and yet he welcomes to Reform with great fanfare ex-Tory MPs Kruger, Jenrick, Braverman and Rosindell who were responsible for years of Tory mis-management plus Pochin who was a Tory councillor. Anderson of course, is a former Tory having been expelled from Labour and turned by Cayzer family money, the man nobody knows what to do with who didn’t even make the “shadow” cabinet.

My point is that if Farage believes he could lead the country, he cannot voice regret and say we wish we hadn’t taken this on because it’s too hard. But then we know that Farage has a history of running away having resigned from both Ukip and the Brexit Party. Curiously, he resigned from UkiP in 2018 because of its anti-Muslim policies. And here we are in 2026, his pick for Gorton & Denton, Matt Goodwin’s anti-Muslim piece in the DM.

The Labour Party has men who behave as idiots too. We wouldn’t now have open racist Pochin in the HoC, causing controversy and offence every time she opens her mouth, elected on the smallest margin of victory in modern British by-election history of just six votes, but for the stupid actions of Mike Amesbury. I am aware of what Andrew Gwynne did and how his former seat was intended for Andy Burnham’s Westminster ambitions.

Why not try answering the questions I posed to you about what Toynbee wrote?

I would argue that one of the principles which characterised Britain’s success was its willingness, that of our fathers and grandfathers, to fight fascism.

Warning Signs of Fascism:

1. Cult of the Leader
2. Powerful and continuing nationalism
3. Disdain for human rights
4. Identification of enemies as a unifying cause
5. Rampant sexism
6. Controlled mass media
7. Obsession with national security
8. Religion and government intertwined
9. Corporate power protected
10. Labour power suppressed
11. Obsession with crime and punishment
12. Rampant cronyism and corruption

Which of those do you think Reform doesn’t embody?

Bringing us back to Goodwins book, I would never have known of him had it not been for the G&D by-election. What I do find it “interesting” is the timing of this book’s publication.

I absolutely agree that in order to be informed about certain topics or learn more about an author, one can read a book written by someone whose views and beliefs are different to those held by the reader.

I’m all for learning new things and being able to see things from others perspectives.

My issue with (bothering) to read Goodwin’s book is that I already know (& constantly hear) Reform’s views and beliefs, they appear to have more than their fair share of media coverage and most of it is rhetoric around immigrations, small boats and women’s place in society, along with very few actual policies, any of which around monetary matters would be fiscal suicide.

I have no desire to read yet more blighted and biased rubbish about “getting our country back”, how immigrants have ruined our lives or how I should be churning out masses of babies, whilst also being at my husband’s beck and call, worshipping his every move and asking his permission to breathe! I would learn nothing more about Reform and Goodwin’s politics than I already know!

No thank you very much, I’d rather boil my head in acid!

I acknowledge you finish by saying "I certainly don't think that Reform would be better able to improve the situation" but that leads me to question why and in what way you think the extracts you read from Matt Goodwin's book are "excellent"? .

Martin/Taurus 8.20: Regarding poverty twaddle, things have got progressively worse. Sadly, current Labour policies wont see much progress, if any, towards meeting their manifesto promises. The pot hardly needs stirring to recognise this for ourselves.

Child poverty has climbed again: 4.5 million children are in poverty, rising for the third year in a row.

Hunger is spreading fast: 1.1 million more people in poverty cannot afford enough food than two years ago"

Twaddle 08.31: "Martav Taurus, Poverty and inequality aren't quite the same thing. Moreover, child poverty has been increasing for years, not just since the new Labour government. The figures we're seeing now more than likely reflect measures introduced by the last government, especially the so-called "bedroom tax" and restrictions on benefits for families with children.

I haven't seen any proposed solution from Reform (or Restore) to improve the situation. It's difficult to understand why people think being something different is better".

MartavTaurus 08.44: That wasn't the point. I realise I should have said, for example , when I started on poverty - which was to get away from the education discussion for a bit.

What I'm emphasising is, that despite Labour's good intentions - "child poverty first"- we see no progress, infact things are going downwards. Dissatisfaction rises, more grumbling occurs.

I certainly don't think that Reform would be better able to improve the situation".

I understand why you decided to pivot from education to poverty- to get away from discussion about education. Twaddle rightly pints out Matt Goodwin's book is more focussed on inequality however.

We all know there are no quick solutions to improving either Poverty or Inequality- both of which deteriorated under 13 years of a Conservative government. We do know Labour's plans and strategies for halting the decline and working towards improvement and their targets e.g. Labour's Child Poverty Strategy 2025. Labour did U turn finally lifted the 2 child benefit cap.

However I echo twaddle- why do you think "doing something different" ( Matt Goodwin's premise) will lead to a better outcome? What plans and strategies does Reform have for child poverty and inequality? Do you/they really think they will achieve improvement in either of those things with measurable data available in 19/20 months of office, in the current economic climate? They

Reform comes across as being focussed on anti immigrant rhetoric and divisiveness rather than providing plans and solutions to the things that really matter.

Martav Taurus, Poverty and inequality aren't quite the same thing.

That wasn't the point. I realise I should have said, for example , when I started on poverty - which was to get away from the education discussion for a bit.

What I'm emphasising is, that despite Labour's good intentions - "child poverty first"- we see no progress, infact things are going downwards. Dissatisfaction rises, more grumbling occurs.

I certainly don't think that Reform would be better able to improve the situation.

Graphite "I have read the DM article. You can use the Remove Paywall app to see it. There is no doubt that Matt Goodwin is articulate but he also twists the words of others to make his own case against immigration.

He uses the term suicidal empathy citing Arnold J. Toynbee's quote, "Civilisations die from suicide, not by murder,”

Key aspects of Toynbee’s argument were:

Self-Destruction: Civilisations fall when they stop solving their own problems and abandon the principles that created their success.

Internal Causes: Decline is rarely caused by external enemies, but by internal decay such as corruption, militarism, and loss of purpose.

I wonder if OP would care to say something about:

• what they consider to be some of the principles that created Britain’s success which have been abandoned and/

• If Toynbee said that decline is rarely caused by external enemies then why is Goodwin citing Toynbee to speak of migrants in those terms?

Toynbee published works on the German terror in Belgium, France and Poland during WW1, describing the kinds of atrocities that Reform are now suggesting in their desire to copy Trump’s brutal ICE force.

I wonder too what OP thinks about the corruption (and hypocrisy) in the very party that Goodwin was recently seeking election to represent.

Tice is in the news again for large-scale tax avoidance. He called Angela Rayner “the biggest hypocrite in the land.” because she acted on poor advice and underpaid £40,000 in stamp duty (which had she bought the apartment after her disabled son turned 18 this year, would not have been an issue). She was amiss in not seeking professional tax advice. Had she done so they would surewy have adviced her to delay buying a property until after that date just as people defer or accelerate transactions to take advantage of SDLT holidays.

To my knowledge, Tice said nothing about Farage buying a house in his girlfriend’s name to evade the same tax.

Tice’s property company used offshore structures to avoid nearly £600,000 in corporation tax (with wider avoidance estimates above £1m). It is extremely unlikely he will pay the tax he avoided. Reform’s election “contract” said it would end the offshore tax rip off. Reform is funded predominantly by foreign and UK nationals who avoid UK tax.

Who are the hypocrites here? Funny how many self-proclaimed “British patriots” spend huge amounts of time and effort setting up schemes to avoid paying UK tax.

Farage has gone on record saying that he regrets that his party took control of Worcestershire County Council because its problems are too hard for them to solve.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c93wv0ylq9yo

They were elected on a promise to cut taxes and have instead increased them by almost 9%, one of the largest increases in its history.

If Reform cannot balance the books of a local county council, what are the chances it could manage the national economy?

Instead it is scapegoating migrants which we should all know is an early sign of the fascism that Goodwin would have us all all live under, not least women with his archaic views about women as baby factories and penalising women who do not have children.

And now we have Reform’s Peter York, vice chairman of West Northamptonshire Council, saying "some women should have never left the kitchen”. He claims his words were taken out of context but in what context would a man say that?"

Reform are not a progressive party but a bunch of people who would have us believe there was some halcyon era of Britishness which never existed.
How do you remove the pay wall? Is there an app?

Thank you for your detailed answer. The bye election apparently happened after Andrew Gwynne sent a string of offensive and abusive whatsapp messages.

Meandrogrog 7.53 "We can all find, through internet searches, articles that support our views. Farage did say he regretted taking control of Worcestershire County Council because it was virtually bankrupt but you did not mention that was the reason why. So you can see how easy it is to twist the narrative!"

I think Graphite was asking you a series of challenging questions and entirely up to you how to reply. In response to Farage's comments about Worcs County Council Luke Charters the Labour MP "Look at the disdain Reform is showing the public here. Farage says he wishes they "hadn't bothered' running a council facing financial difficulties. When the going gets tough Reform GIVES UP! If this is how they treat a county, imagine what they'd do to a country". Graphite provided a newspaper link re Farage and the issue- it's more the case Frage is twisting the narrative surely.

Graphite hadn't mentioned the G and Denton but many of us do know why it was called? whatever the reason Matt Goodwin's anti immigrant rhetoric lost out to Hannah Goodwin's more inclusive platform- emphatically.

I'm interested whether you have any response to the questions Graphite poses to those who agree with Matt Goodwin's book premise:

• what they consider to be some of the principles that created Britain’s success which have been abandoned and/

• If Toynbee said that decline is rarely caused by external enemies then why is Goodwin citing Toynbee to speak of migrants in those terms?

Martav Taurus, Poverty and inequality aren't quite the same thing.

Moreover, child poverty has been increasing for years, not just since the new Labour government. The figures we're seeing now more than likely reflect measures introduced by the last government, especially the so-called "bedroom tax" and restrictions on benefits for families with children.

I haven't seen any proposed solution from Reform (or Restore) to improve the situation. It's difficult to understand why people think being something different is better.

Galaxy 👏 👏 👏

Regarding poverty twaddle, things have got progressively worse. Sadly, current Labour policies wont see much progress, if any, towards meeting their manifesto promises. The pot hardly needs stirring to recognise this for ourselves.

Child poverty has climbed again: 4.5 million children are in poverty, rising for the third year in a row.

Hunger is spreading fast: 1.1 million more people in poverty cannot afford enough food than two years ago.