To think this so called art exhibition in Margate is nothing short of a hate crime

It is. But very vague. If I’d witnessed such a public “artwork” I’m pretty sure I would remember exactly where it was.

Bern in Switzerland? But I don’t think it is connected with Jewish people. An ogre eating children.

Thanks nanna8. Switzerland.
When you're on a coach tour of Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland, aged 12 or 13, you don't actually remember where every statue you saw was. But you do remember the stories you were told. It terrified me for years.

That The Kindlifresser was built as a sort of warning to the Jewish community of Bern.
The Kindlifresser wears a hat that is strikingly similar to the yellow pointed Judenhut that Jews were forced to wear at that time to vilify them.

Sorry folks, I didn't have time to look all this up when I wrote it yesterday. Currently on a European river cruise. I can't always remember what one sees in which country, but this time I will because the boat in front of ours crashed on boulders in the river left after storms. The poor passengers had to be taken off, and no-one can now get up the river to the next country! Hey-ho!

Never heard so much as a whisper about this exhibition, until this post.

MartavTaurus

Thanks nanna8. Switzerland.
When you're on a coach tour of Bavaria, Austria and Switzerland, aged 12 or 13, you don't actually remember where every statue you saw was. But you do remember the stories you were told. It terrified me for years.

That The Kindlifresser was built as a sort of warning to the Jewish community of Bern.
The Kindlifresser wears a hat that is strikingly similar to the yellow pointed Judenhut that Jews were forced to wear at that time to vilify them.

Sorry folks, I didn't have time to look all this up when I wrote it yesterday. Currently on a European river cruise. I can't always remember what one sees in which country, but this time I will because the boat in front of ours crashed on boulders in the river left after storms. The poor passengers had to be taken off, and no-one can now get up the river to the next country! Hey-ho!

A European river cruise is one of the best cruises I have ever been on. Absolutely wonderful - enjoy yourselves!

MartavTaurus

Sounds like he's the one having the hysterical rant, just as much as the media and others he criticises. Of course its antisemitism, couched in the very loose definition of a piece of Art. My foot!

Artworks inciting hatred of Jews are universal and have been around since medieval times. They are particularly present in Germany, France and the UK. The same sculpture I mentioned was 16th century. Its too convenient to say the painting is just a depiction of the current situation.

If you mean the "Kindlifresser" in Bern, it's speculation that the child-eating monster is Jewish. Not only artwork inciting hatred of Jews, but the German-speaking world (especially South Germany/Austria) is full of folklore of monsters intended to frighten children to make them behave.

I cannot understand why such an exhibition is tolerated, surely its a hate crime, says a lot about the mint set of the so called artist. Lets hope it is removed.

nanna8

Bern in Switzerland? But I don’t think it is connected with Jewish people. An ogre eating children.

Yes, Bern in Switzerland.

A bogey man scaring children into behaving. The ogre is wearing a Jewish-style hat but that could be coincidence.

Grimm brothers and others fairy tales were full of terrible things happening to children to frighten them into behaving well were encourage them to behave .
All over southern Europe has these ancient statues from those times.

silverlining48

Grimm brothers and others fairy tales were full of terrible things happening to children to frighten them into behaving well were encourage them to behave .
All over southern Europe has these ancient statues from those times.

ancient statues

Yes, this one is 16th Century.

Whether or not it depicts a Jewish person is debatable.

The point is, this so-called 'art' exhibition is now, in this country.
Have we learned nothing from the Holocaust?

I'm sure many in this country have learned a great deal from the holocaust.

The Kindlifresserbrunnen is an art form sculpture in Bern. some interpret it as "blood libel" against Jews, but some do not. In a similar way the exhibition in Kent is interpreted by some to be anti semitic but not by the police or everyone else. In perspective- the sculpture in Bern has been allowed to stand in place for almost 500 years - the exhibition in Kent lasted one week and has now ended.

From Wikipedia:
"The Kindlifresserbrunnen is a painted stone fountain at the Kornhausplatz (Granary Place) in Bern, Switzerland. It is one of the Old City of Bern's fountains from the 16th century.
Creation and naming. It was created in 1545–1546 by Hans Gieng to replace a wooden fountain from the 15th century. The new fountain's original name was Platzbrunnen (Plaza Fountain); the current name was used first in 1666. Kindli is a Swiss German diminutive for the German word Kind, meaning child. A literal translation of the name Kindlifresserbrunnen therefore would be "Fountain of the Eater of Little Children".

Interpretations
The fountain sculpture depicts a seated ogre devouring a naked child. Placed at his side is a bag containing more children. Because the ogre is wearing a pointed hat resembling a Jewish one,[1] it has been speculated[2] about the possibility of the ogre being the depiction of a Jew as an expression of blood libel against Jews. Another theory is that the statue is the likeness of Krampus, the beast-like creature from the folklore of Alpine countries thought to punish children during the Christmas season who had misbehaved. According to other theories it is a depiction of the Greek god Cronus eating his children or the Roman Saturn eating the months, though Cronus should have six and Saturn twelve rather than the sculpture's eight.[3]
Another theory is that it represented Cardinal Schiner who led the Swiss Confederation into several bloody defeats in Northern Italy. An alternative theory is that it is a depiction of the older brother of Duke Berchtold (founder of Bern) who it is claimed, was so incensed by his younger brother's overshadowing of him that he collected and ate the town's children. Such an incident is not recorded in Bern's history books.[4] A final theory is that it is just a carnival character intended to frighten disobedient children.[3]
Another theory is the eight children depict the eight cantons of the Old Swiss Confederacy and the Ogre is an enemy (possibly Charles the Bold, Duke of Burgundy) trying to gobble the cantons up. This would match with the fountain's base which shows a frieze of armed bears going to war, including a piper and a drummer.

And this is why anti-semitism continues. 🤔

Such choice of interpretations! Yet the ogre wears a Jewish hat.
🤔

I think it’s disgusting. Can you imagine if it was the other way round & it was Muslims being depicted in this manner 😩

I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them. Is it to sell really bad art at £400 for work on paper and around £4K for an oil painting?

ronib

I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them. Is it to sell really bad art at £400 for work on paper and around £4K for an oil painting?

You'd have to be pretty sick to buy that to hang on your wall.

Charles Dickens and Oliver Twist, 1938, the Holocaust 1941 - 1945, 6 million Jews murdered, Mengele carried out experiments on babies and children, are we to believe he was trying to heal them ?

Oreo

Such choice of interpretations! Yet the ogre wears a Jewish hat.
🤔

Indeed.
There definitely exists a few different theories about the neaning of the Bern statue. It's just interesting that tour guides bring up the Jewish connection. I happened to read a few sites on it in German this morning to make sure.

Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm were German academics and folklorists so they collected their inspiration from many sources. They wrote in the nineteenth century, I remember studying their works as a specialist subject for part of my German degree.
The Kindlifresser statue in Bern is 16th century.

Ronib 12.58 "I wish I understood why artists are so qualified to pontificate on matters which simply don’t concern them".

The law does not require anyone, including artists to be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters that some may consider "don't concern them". We have freedom of speech laws in the UK and also have freedom to choose as an individual what concerns us personally.

Gransnet similarly does not rule that posters must be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters- we are all able to share and express our differing views on the politics and news forum. All posters also have the freedom to choose as an individual which posts concerns them personally and which don't - there is no rule or law that states they must not express their views on matters that other posters consider "simply don’t concern them".

Politics concern everyone so it’s natural if you are an artist interested in politics to make political work, just a artists who like landscape paint landscapes, and artists who are interested in past art and artists and reference them and their work do just that….

And artists of all kinds, visual, musical, writers, including in the ancient world, have always been involved in politics if it’s either an area of interest, or commissioned to represent a particular POV.

Gransnet similarly does not rule that posters must be "qualified" to pontificate on political matters- we are all able to share and express our differing views on the politics and news forum. All posters also have the freedom to choose as an individual which posts concerns them personally and which don't - there is no rule or law that states they must not express their views on matters that other posters consider "simply don’t concern them".

Well, that's a relief to read!

So often we see posters being told their views are not well-researched, are just opinion (unless something is an absolute, it is someone's opinion) or that their views are not welcome because they don't live in this country or they do not concur with other posters. Yet daily we read threads about the politics of other countries and posters are dismissive of the views of others.

Thank you Lemonjam, I agree with you. Without varying opinions and different views, this would be a very boring forum.

I think it only matters when someone is making an assertion that is based on statistics or needs a bit of information to back up
As in “all people who do this are…. Etc etc.

Now I have heard of Krampus, who is 'celebrated' just before Christmas.

Krampus is horned, like the Devil, so probably not who the statue is representing, although he too eats children.

Looked up the one that is described and Google says it represents Cronus, the Titan, who ate his children.
The tale of Hansel and Gretel involves the intended eating of children.