Trump says countries like UK can fight for their oil

Maremia

Europe has not given 'excuses'
Europe has given reasons for not joining in an illegal war.

TBH, Maremia, I have no idea what BlessedArt is talking about.

No NATO country has been attacked so there is no reason at all to join Trump's illegal war.

A war which has the potential to cause huge damage to countries world wide as and when Trump walks away from it (which he will) If anyone has made the world less secure it's Trump and Netanyahu.

Which makes me very angry...

BlessedArt

I don’t currently have 16 mins to watch a video of excuses for Europeans absolving themselves of personal responsibility for their own security. I may later on this evening, but the idea that we were merely pawns in an American design reminds me of the poem about excuses.

We are where we are. We need to acknowledge that our dependence has put us in this unstable position and move forward toward stronger security for ourselves.

If you’re really interested in the truth here is a shorter article.

europeanrelations.com/the-illusion-of-european-autonomy/

Oh wouldn't it be loverly 😂

www.facebook.com/groups/602487414718680/permalink/1505885197712226

BlessedArt

I don’t currently have 16 mins to watch a video of excuses for Europeans absolving themselves of personal responsibility for their own security. I may later on this evening, but the idea that we were merely pawns in an American design reminds me of the poem about excuses.

We are where we are. We need to acknowledge that our dependence has put us in this unstable position and move forward toward stronger security for ourselves.

I actually agree with Blessed Art

The only country capable of solving the Iran "problem" is China, they are sitting back until Trump has got bored and Iran is on its knees. They could if they chose stabilize the whole region, by insisting that Iran stopped the nuclear and terror activity, Iran would have to take notice of that because without China they could not rebuild.

So the US looses the war and China wins the peace.

It's insane man trying to force Europe to build more killing machines and recruiting more soldiers....spending money on war

Its sits very badly with me, as Trump is on a zero sum game.

No one wins

How far do we join in?

No, I'm not a total pacifist, we do need "Defence" but do we let Trump turn the world into seething enemies, armed to the teeth? It fits with his philosophy, I'm pretty sure he enjoys it

There is more than a touch of nihilist in him. More than a grandiosity found in Revelations, a delight to play with Armageddon..

This whole situation makes me very angry!

Trump attacked Iran without going through congress, Netanyahu played him as he wanted to attack Iran.

Trump attempted to drag us into this War, we said no thank you, but we’ll help destroy launched missiles.

Neither we, nor Europe, have to have reasons, we do not owe Trump any kind of explanations.

In the meantime let’s just ignore Gaza and Ukraine and don’t worry about those Iranian citizens who so hoped for something much much more.

Article today bySimon Jenkins saying how unfortunate the world is to have two such men as Trump and Putin - both intent on totally unnecessary wars, both with immense power and the ability to cause utter mayhem.

Unlucky is a vast understatement.

What keeps me going, is the phrase attributed to Robert the Bruce when hiding in a cave(allegedly), 'This, too, will pass.'
Elderly men won't be around forever. Everyhing i read from Usa commentators, points to a man who is physically and mentally deteriorating at an ever increading rate. The pendulum will swing back again and Democrats will put the kibosh on Trumps power grabs.

It’s now glaring obvious that the us isn’t going to win this fight ( well everyone except Donny)
Has anyone told him what a nice little earner he has handed Iran.
In February approximately 150 ships per day transited through the strait. Now we know that quite a few are paying $2millon for this privilege.
Maybe you get a discount for more than one ship but it’s still an eye watering amount of money.

I wonder what the cost of using a longer route, compared with paying $2 million for passing through the Strait, would be?

After all, once the difference in the time it would take had been planned for a longer route should be manageable,

OldFrill

AGAA4

Is that all you have to say OldFrill on a serious subject? I am much more affronted by what is actually happening than words.

Id previously contributed to this thread, do keep up if your going to patronise me.

Words matter. They put the colour into a cold grey account and the living nuances into an expressionless statement of intent. It is not pedantry to be aware of that, and of how much influence the exact meanings are of the words chosen.

There is a difference between "boots on the ground" and "men deployed on the battlefield" Boots on their own don't carry out the orders of the top brass back home making theoretical plans. Boots don't bleed and suffer when the enemy don't fll in with the plan. Boots don't have parents and families to grieve when they don't return from their deployment.
"Body bags" are empty containers for the debris of war. Once they have been filled, they can be replaced from the stores. Soldiers who have been killed in action or died of their wounds are "casualties", and they are much more than that. They are dead human beings, who cannot be replaced as individuals, as sons, daughters, partners, parents, friends, workmates, colleagues.

Which of these terms speak of the futility of war?

IMO none of them Elegran.

sorry, meant to post all of them.

But some more than others. People, surviving or dead, are the casualties of war. The boots and bodybags are just equipment.

Wyllow3

It's insane man trying to force Europe to build more killing machines and recruiting more soldiers....spending money on war

Its sits very badly with me, as Trump is on a zero sum game.

No one wins

How far do we join in?

No, I'm not a total pacifist, we do need "Defence" but do we let Trump turn the world into seething enemies, armed to the teeth? It fits with his philosophy, I'm pretty sure he enjoys it

There is more than a touch of nihilist in him. More than a grandiosity found in Revelations, a delight to play with Armageddon..

👏👏👏👏

I bet Trump is bitterly regretting listening to Netanyahu.

It will be interesting to see if this is the case and he takes his revenge.

Well Trump is not alone. Most of the UK mocks Starmer, he is disastrously mockable.

Whitewavemark2

I bet Trump is bitterly regretting listening to Netanyahu.

It will be interesting to see if this is the case and he takes his revenge.

I don't think Trump does regret. He will justify it all to himself whatever the consequences. If all else fails, he will just blame Pete Hegseth!

Trump mocks everybody. Just yesterday he sounded off about Bruce Springsteen, President Macron, even Vance. He does it when he perceives people have slighted him (ie they have had the balls to disagree with him). He is a weak, insecure man whose only defence mechanism is to bully, as men like him so often do.

Casdon

Trump mocks everybody. Just yesterday he sounded off about Bruce Springsteen, President Macron, even Vance. He does it when he perceives people have slighted him (ie they have had the balls to disagree with him). He is a weak, insecure man whose only defence mechanism is to bully, as men like him so often do.

He is a vain empty husk of a man who constantly needs his ego stroking. Anyone who dares criticise him or goes against him will be insulted in a peevish childlike manner.
I have never seen or heard a person like him in all my 76 years and have no wish to hear or see the like of him once he leaves office.

Total days left for this man 1,022
But only 949 days till he becomes a "lame duck" because the transfer period is quite long. 73 days.

I hope nothing he does stops him from going.

I feel there should be a countdown clock somewhere!

Every day of the 949 will no doubt have new slights and toys out of the pram moments too. By the time he goes, there will be nobody he has not disrespected, I imagine.

Now just supposing Starmer had been weak or stupid enough to answer Trump's Call of Duty. Those Posters who think we should have followed Trump into this illegal war, whose troops would have been the first 'boots on the ground' onto that killing ground of an Island.
Whose warships should have been first into the Strait to face the Iranian barage?

Well it wouldn't have been America's would it Maremia.